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sanvy's picture
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Joined: 2012-09-11

Hi There,

 

We just got our first doberman a week ago -- we also have a two year old japanese spitz.

When we first brought her home the spitz wanted to maul her, he has now settled to the point where they are both off leash and he leaves her well alone, the same cannot be said however for the puppy.

 

Kira (the now 10 week old dobe) will follow/nip/paw/push irritate Loki to the point where he puts her down (in a good way, no excessive aggression) she goes belly up -- then the process starts all over again -- he seems to be exasperated and I dont want her to wear on his patience. She just doesnt play nicely, she snatches his toys (his chews -- even though we give them both the same item, she will look at his and then drop her chew and snatch his). He lets her get away with this, but we dont want to as later in life if she decides he will have nothing, that will be the result -- if we let her continue taking all his stuff. 

Is this normal or should we start correcting immediately (how do we correct), they are both about the same size at the moment I dont want her bullying him for the rest of his life :(. We actually got her as a companion for him, I had thought he would have her well under control by now, but unfortunately not so.

Appreciate any advice you can give, and the time you have taken to read this :)

 

Cheers

Sanvy

Max's Dad's picture
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Joined: 2013-01-16

First off, welcome!

But, oooooh boy.. You've got a case of puppy on your hands. She's going to be obnoxious for a while still too. The two probably will never get along though. The older she gets, the less she'll care about the Spitz. However, it sounds like the Spitz has what I call "little dog syndrome".

Don't take offence to any of this, but it's what I've seen, even in my fiance's Shih-Tzu when we got Max. My experience with it, and it's been close to two years, and the two have literally played a maximum of 5 times in the two years. Reason being, is because the Shih-Tzu thought of Max as a threat. And he wasn't corrected for anything he ever did. He had the run of the house, and was rarely punished. Then with the introduction of Max, he realized he wasn't the center of attention, and was overly aggressive towards him. Max didn't see it as aggression, and thought he was playing. I let it go for a while, until I read up on it, and once it started happening, I immediately cut the issue.

Remember, a puppy isn't full grown. It may be cute now, but is it cute when she's 70lbs? Just remember, your Spitz was there first, and he sees it as something trying to take his turf. But, you need to stay vigilant with it, and make sure that neither is being aggressive towards one another. Mainly your Spitz right now. Since your Dobe is just a puppy, she won't be aggressive and just wants to play. But give positive corrections. Give her a firm "No", and make sure to direct her towards something you want her to be doing; like playing with a toy instead.

It's not you fault that she's being a pup, but chaning the Spitz can be hard, and may never work. But you can just keep being frim and assertive, and making sure they both know you're the alpha.

Good luck, and if you have anymore information or questions, keep posting!

sanvy's picture
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Joined: 2012-09-11

Thanks :) its good to be part of this forum.

 

No offence taken to any of it :) -- all good.

 

Get this, they have started playing together -- like 2-3 times a day. Ill start with the corrections (she seems to get it when we correct her though) -- which is a plus.

 

Now I need to read up on some toilet training tips :)

 

Thanks again for the help

 

Cheers

Sanvy

Lady Kate's picture
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Joined: 2009-10-28

Pet Profiles

Hello and welcome to the Forum.. I partially disagree with Max. ( in a MOST respectful way mind you..)

I think it depends on the dogs personality and demeanor.

Never EVER in a million trillion years did I think Sofia would ever accept the emergency rescued pup we brought home.. After all she IS the resident Diva.. snooty..high prey drive.. spoiled beyond reason.. We were all set to do a foster and worse case scenario keep the girls separated FOR LIFE.. well miracles upon miracles.. not only does Sofia accept the baby Bella.. she shares her treasured toys.. watches with maternal pride as Bella tears said treasures to pieces... bathes her and instigates play.. They adore each other and even though we DO separate at feeding time ( why ask for problems?) we couldn't be more pleased.\

Now about the rough play.. Sofia is 75 pounds.. Bella has blossomed from an 11 pounder to a nice 26 pounds and growing.. she'll stalk La Diva like a great huntress and leap on her back just like the lionesses do to the wildebeests... Sofia will roll her eyes and shake her off.. ( sorta odd to see a puppy turn into a tumbleweed) when Bella oversteps her boundaries.. Sofia will let her know with a low growl or even a snap.. we let them go at it.. halting play only short of bloodshed.. \You DO have to watch them at all times.. don't get me wrong..your Spitz is not a baby sitter..but Kira HAS to learn somehow and trust Loki to teach her.. I have a hunch they'll get along just fine.. many many people have multiples and I was so leery at first.. but now.. can't imagine NOT having two ... or three...or.. ( somebody STOP me)

The best bit of advice I can give you is to try to keep YOUR energy level low.. they pick up on it.. if you're at all stressed when they start to play.. BOTH dogs will sense it.. think there's something to protect and you'll notice it will intensify.

Best of luck.. and keep asking questions..

Smooches to the Pooches

Katie, Sofia and Bella

talisin's picture
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Joined: 2011-02-25

For me I NEVER let my dogs work it out or disrespect each other, if they are being "pushy" I stop it instantly, if one takes ones toy away I get up and take it and give it back and if there is any indication of an eyebrow lift or flicker of "how dare you mom" I snap my finger while pointing it at them and give them "the look" of "don't question me" and they back off. I have always been "mom" and don't take ANY crap from my children even to each other; and if I see rough play which is rare since our dogs don't play with each other but if they get that wild hair and want to play it's allowed but the first major shove or "pushy" type response play is over. Maybe that's why my dogs totally IGNORE each other hahahaah

Anyway that's what I do and we don't have problems at all.....to me allowing them to get rowdy is fine but to steal is not, to hoard is not, and to go over and stare at the other one to make them relinquish their bed is not acceptable either, all of these show me a tendency towards bullying and that's not allowed.

sanvy's picture
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Joined: 2012-09-11

Firstly -- Thank you all for your great advice and takign the time to answer. 


We have started correcting the thieving and the nipping, but its just a constant battle (well keep doing it) since shes just a puppy so we WILL keep correcting and saying no.

 

Ive noticed though she is getting better as is Loki, hes more tolerant now of her company and playing with her like 3-4 times daily and they are less stand offish than before. I will post some pictures up shortly.

 

Many thanks to you all -- its greatly appreciated :)

talisin's picture
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Joined: 2011-02-25

Here's the experience I had with Ben - he was a rescue from a shelter, we adopted him from rescue when he was 7 years old with no idea of his previous life....we had 8 cats at the time, a collie who died shortly after Ben arrived and Pepe our little chihuahua we still have. Ben fit right in, ignored the cats, bonded with the collie and ignored the chihuahua.....however, the cats would jump OVER him and he would get that OMG look - the instant I saw him twitch I called him on it, so he quit doing that within the first week.....then came the kittens, lord have mercy, they saw those big rottie feet as playthings, one kitten insisted on wrapping himself around Ben's back feet and chewing on them - Ben would grumble and I could tell this was not just a play swat this was hurting ben, so every time that kitten headed towards ben's feet I got up and moved the kitten, redirected the kitten, and every time I heard a slight grumble from Ben at night in the floor I would look up to see that kitten chewing on his leg, I would point my finger at Ben and say "I'll handle it" and I would get up and go get that dang kitten away from him. I would do this EVERY time that kitten got close to ben. Ben learned fast that HE didn't have to do anything about it, he didn't have to react cause Mom would handle it; the end result was that Ben would go to bed in the bedroom and that kitten would follow him, my husband is near deaf in both ears, so of course he couldn't hear Ben's low grumbles, and I would be sitting up working in the living room and after an hour or so of them being in bed down the hall, I would see ben creeping down the hall with his eyes half closed and he would stand there staring at me like "help" and I would know that Handel the kitten was chewing on him, I would walk down the hall and get handel and ben would go back to bed and I would close the door this became a nightly ritual Ben, hubby, and cats go to bed, an hour later Ben creeps down the hall to ask for help dealing with that kitten.

Point is that Ben felt in the beginning HE had to handle it but when he learned I understood and I would protect him he would COME GET me to take care of it, we always knew that the cats were safe with Ben cause he knew he didn't have to figure out what to do.....so hopefully your dogs will learn that they can be themselves with the full knowledge that you will not let one dog best the other one.....and they won't have to decide what or how to handle it.....

sanvy's picture
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Joined: 2012-09-11

Its now been a month or two -- happy to report that the two are getting on :). However the dobe is now bigger than the spitz and beggining to irritate him with her mouthing and jumping on him.. But we are correcting her and it seems to be working. 

Ill upload some pictures shortly.


Thanks everyone so much for the advice -- it did get better -- just took a lot of work.

talisin's picture
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Joined: 2011-02-25

keep in mind that it will remain alot of work till one of them passes, you can never assume that they are trained to interact well and then relax.....it's a minute by minute daily job to stay on top of interactions between the dogs, regardless of how well they are getting along right now.....

I have a rescued rottweiler (2 months ago who is 9 years old) and a 15 year old chihuahua and 7 cats; when the dogs and I are outside on the porch if I have to go inside for a drink I take one of them with me so that neither is alone with the other on the porch unsupervised. Now if they are both sound asleep I might race into the house and right back out; but I never assume they are going to be tolerant of each other if I am not there. And the cats, if the cats show too much interest in the rottie then I call down the cats...It's a constant watching game to see who is interacting with who in my house......the cats however, sometimes I let them try to communicate with each other but most times I step in to control their interaction, it's exhausting and has resulted in two cats being crated for the most part and I am actively seeking a home for one or both so they don't have to rely on their crates to keep them out of trouble.

having more than one animal at a time is a responsibility of monitoring that is forever as long as they live.....

Looking for pics!!!

sanvy's picture
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Joined: 2012-09-11

 

 

Joined: 2012-10-28

Pet Profiles

Great Photos!

 Keep up with the documenting, that Dobie will soon tower over her BFF!!

It is so true that puppies can often breathe new life and playfulness into and older housemate, people included!

talisin's picture
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Joined: 2011-02-25

Oh wow I am just now seeing this as new but they are dated as June 28th these are adorable pics!!! my great grandmother had "spitz" dogs her favorite was Snowball of couse....love the little eskies....bet the size difference has already changed between the two of them :))

sanvy's picture
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Joined: 2012-09-11

 

Here is a growth update -- she still nips and annoys him but its getting better.

Lady Kate's picture
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Joined: 2009-10-28

Pet Profiles

Great photos.. so glad things are working out.. You have two STUNNING dogs.. and how I love the contrast of colors...

thanks for the update..

sanvy's picture
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Joined: 2012-09-11

Thank you Lady Kate :)