2 doberman puppies

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JJ
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I'm going to have 2 doberman puppies in the middle of November. 1 black male and 1 brown female, from different litters but both should be very genetically gifted


The breeder recommends that they're crated most of the day in the beginning, to really get them used to the crate early on. Except for around 3 x 30-60 minutes each day.

Any ideas on how much they should be together when they're not in the crate? First thing in the morning they should be taken out to do their thing of course, but should I take them out together or would that distract them too much so they'd rather play than poop? Should they be allowed to eat at the same time, or would it be better to let them eat one at a time so they can focus on eating?

We'll have a very competent dog trainer come to our home 2 times a week, one for each puppy. So we'll train them seperately with him in the beginning.

Any other tips on having 2 puppies at the same time? I have no experience with 2 pups.

I know it will require a lot of time and dedication but I have a flexible schedule, my wife is not working and is home most of the day and we have a maid who's home all the time.

Thanks

glengate's picture
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I'm sorry, but your breeder sounds like a moron.  Keep the puppies crated for most of the day??? 

In short, the whole situation is inadvisable. 

http://www.doglistener.co.uk/choosing/siblings.shtml
http://www.caninedevelopment.com/Sibling.htm

 

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I have never had 2 pups at the same time, personally I would not get 2 pups or 2 littermates at the same time.

However it is good that you have a trainer, a flexible schedule and someone who is home a lot.

I do believe in crate training and having a dog who is comfortable with their crate and I also like the crate to help with housebreaking but I would think she is telling you to crate them to long during a day.

Like I said I have never had 2 pups at same time so curious to see what advice others will give.

I allow my dogs to spend time together but at the same time I purposely will seperate them for ex. I will take 1 for a walk or ride and leave the other at home,I will have 1 dog go with my husband and I will take the other 1 to the park,I will have 1 in a room with me and the other dog  will be outside with him etc and also they have their playtime together in the yard and eat together but it helps to teach them it is ok if they are alone or the other dog is not around I feel it helps them so they do not get the "seperation anxiety thing" going on if the other dog is not right beside him.My dogs are happy with each other and they are also happy if they are by themselves for a while.

I would think it would be best to feed them both at the same time in the same room so they get used to that and do not develop a "food issue" towards each other not sure like I said curious to see what others recommend who have raised 2 pups at the same time.When will they be spayed/neutered?Do you have their names picked out yet?

JJ
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Thanks for the links. Defintely interesting. I have a big house with many rooms, so I could give them a room each to be seperated a lot while they're young if that's the best. We also have the time to do everything with them seperately. Please note that we don't get 2 puppies so we don't have to spend time with them as he suggests in the article. We live on a small island in south east asia and there's not a whole lot of healthy dogs here. Therefore our dog will not have many if any dogs to play with if he don't have a sister. Besides that we need them for security reasons, and in that case 2 is obviosly better than 1.

Regarding the crating the breeder sent us a long guide on e-mail on how to take care of the dogs down here. In that specific section he wrote:

Crating: You must get a crate for your pup. The big ones from most pet shops work well- I prefer the plastic airline – a lot more expensive YES- but then I use them to transport my adult dogs on the back of my pickup. You can buy these in BKK- they are about 5K. The cheaper wire-type ones will also do- they are about 900 Baht. I keep new pups in an air conditioned room for the first 6 weeks. You can switch the air con off at certain times when it’s cooler (like in the evenings when you are not smack bang in the hot season) with a fan blowing on your pup. Dobies get hot very quickly and when hot they won’t have much of an appetite. You will be surprised how a pup that isn’t eating much turns into a bag of bones if he/she isn’t eating. They can also be fussy eaters- you are blessed if you get one who has a good appetite! I find the girls generally have better appetites than the boys do. More on feeding later….

I crate my pups pretty much the entire day- except for sessions of 30 minutes to an hour 3 times a day for outside pees and a run around. At meal times I will crank up the air con an hour before to make them hungry, then play with them as much as I can, give them those plastic bones for their teeth etc. This all has to do with ROUTINE. I am often tempted to let a pup run through my house freely and it’s hard to keep them sticking to the box- but this way you will enforce discipline, pups will still be friendly at play times and your dog will get his/her chance to live outside once old and strong enough. Once you have allowed your dog a chance to break this routine and run amok- it’s VERY hard to get them used to being crated again without hours of howling. Add to this everything getting chewed, you won’t get them house trained plus they stand a chance of eating things they should not eat at this stage- dobies have very sensitive stomachs- I will get to this a bit later…

When you let your Doberman run around, I would keep him/her away from all other dogs until at least 2 weeks after the THIRD PARVO shot (around 5 months old). I would also avoid grassed areas where other dogs may have been and any areas where you know a Parvo dog has been.

JJ
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Thanks for sharing. It seems to be a good philosophy and in line with what's in the articles glengate linked to

cf33's picture
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If reading correctly I WOULD NOT play with them and get them all wound up an hour before feeding.I am VERY cautious about BLOAT not only in my danes but with other breeds as well my girlfriends collie died from bloat I would be cautious of this also with dobermans.

I am not a dog trainer or breeder,I do not know that seperating a lot when young is good or best.I do not seperate them for hours from each other I just take 1 here and there and we sit in different areas of the home with the dogs with us or 1 may be inside and the other outside for a little bit so they are not stuck to each other all day and they also each get their private/alone time.if that makes sense.

just curious where are they being shipped from?

strange question? What is the weather typically like in Asia? never been there do not know anyone who has ever visited there. from dobermans to the weather LOL

JJ
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That makes sense.


The dobermans are from Thailand which is also where I live. They are shipped from Bangkok though and I live on an island. This is the breeder: http://ps-dobermanns.com/


Most of the time it's around 30 degress celcius here (86 fahrenheit). One part of the year the sun is shining a lot and it's not raining at all, the other part of the year it's more grey (but still hot) and it's raining a lot.

 

I just talked to the breeder again and he told me that one of the reasons he recommends so much crating the first couple of months is because parvovirus survives very easily here because it's hot all the time. Flies can carry it and it can be on the ground up to a year. At least that's what he told me.

JJ
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I have read a lot about the issues you mentioned today and decided to call the breeder and cancel the female dog so I only keep the black male. They respected my choice even though I had already paid a deposit on both dogs. Thanks for your help, I'm very happy that you pointed me in that direction NOW and not AFTER I got both dogs!

DJ's Dad's picture
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JJ--My opinion is that one pup at a time is a very wise choice. 

cf33's picture
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agree with Zivas dad, 1 pup for now would be a better idea.They are a lot of work and then down the road in time after the first 1 is settled and trained you can always get your 2nd dog.We will be looking forward to meeting your new girl next month when you get her!In the meantime there are lots of informative post here on this forum about this breed.I keep going through them myself to educate myself more about the breed.

nupe's picture
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Good move you making JJ...This forum just rules !! Good people Good advice!!

 

 

JJ
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Thanks a lot to you all. I'm looking forward to learn even more in here

Lady Kate's picture
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Welcome to the Forum JJ.. It's so cool that we've got such a world-wide membership... This is such a great forum and we all hope for nothing but the best for you and your new pup. BTW once you're established with Doberman #1.. think of all the 'help' you'll have if you decide to bring a new one into the family.. Keep us informed

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I am sorry but in my opinion this breeder sounds like he doesn't know what he is talking about.  Yes routine is very important but keeping your puppy locked in a crate the entire day except for about an hour and a half???  What about the pups socialization and mental stimulation? Isn't that just as important.  Also, Cranking the air up and blowing a fan directly on them...yes dobermans are very sensitive to the heat but they are also very sensitive to the cold. Playing hard right before feeding?  Selling 2 puppies to a family at the same time?  A lot of warning signs imo.

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Kudos to you, JJ, for being open to good advice.  It just makes a lot more sense to raise one puppy well, and then that dog is helpful to you in raising another puppy well later.  I generally advise that one maintain 18 months to 2 years between puppies.  I don't think anyone cares about how big your house is - it's just a bad idea to try to raise 2 puppies at the same time for the sake of the puppies and the humans involved. 

I completely believe in crate training.  I have no problem with that.  But crate training doesn't take 23 1/2 hours a day.  Puppies need mental stimulation, they need to play, they need to exercise, they need to be socialized to people, noises, cars, appliances, places, etc and that's not going to happen being stuck in a crate all day.  If anything, crate training will go wayyyy better if puppy comes out and is a puppy for 2 or 3 hours, then goes for an hour to his crate to rest and recharge, then comes back out for 2 or 3 hours, etc. 

The breeder's puppies probably aren't hungry because they just sit in crates and don't DO anything. 

JJ
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To both of you: let me correct myself, it was not the actual breeder who wrote those things, but a guy who helps him with english clients as he doesn't speak english very well himself. He says all that crate-time in the first 2 months is also to protect the puppies before they have gotten more shots as there is a lot of parvo-virus and stray-dogs around here in Thailand. Generally he says that breeding and raising dobermans here in Thailand is a lot different than in Europe and the US. That was his explanation, I don't have enough knowledge to be the judge, but I also think it sounds like a bit too much.


Regarding the black male I'm getting here is the story about how the litter came to be. Does anyone know something about these dogs?

It's Nobildonna de Grande Vinko X Oro y plata de Grande Vink

Why so expensive? That was the first question I asked him. Let me explain why.. Nobildonna was driven by car from the Ukraine to Russia to have a romantic afternoon with Oro. After mating she was taken back to the Ukraine (I have the mating pictures!). When it was confirmed that she was full of pups, she was then flown to Thailand. She is now one of our dames as Phisit has bought her. He has invested a HUGE sum of money in this, he has had a number of setbacks this year, but the real reason why the pups are more expensive is simple: the QUALITY is so much better plus they are a NEW bloodline which we do not have in our kennels. The fact that he has sold seven so far shows that people in the Thai dobermann circles know that this is a great mix of champion dobies: hence the higher price.