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Princess Isis's picture
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Our baby, 9wks, has just recently started flipping out when we are preparing to go to sleep...it's as if she is hit with yet another burst of energy, despite us running and playing with her ALOT prior to us going to sleep. I don't know what to do, I feel bad getting on to her, but if we don't she will just cry and try jumping on the bed until someone pays attention to her. I know something needs to be done, just don't know what!! HELP PLEASE..

DJ's Dad's picture
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It's a natural phenomenon---last burst of energy before crashing for the night.  It will last for a few months, so get used to it.  I always took mine outside about 20 minutes before bedtime for one last rigorous game of 'chase the ball' or gave her something she could chew on for a long time and just waited till she got so tired she dropped.  LOL

Have you tried giving her a Kong rubber toy, maybe stuff some peanut butter inside it?  Might help keep her quiet and focused on something until she gets tired enough to sleep.

Princess Isis's picture
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So, do you recommend just giving her, like a teething ring (she loves those things)? Because her toys aren't doing the trick...as soon as we lay down and she can't see us, she starts crying!  I have been a little under the weather these last few days and last night I was a little more stern with her than usual...she looked at me like "what the" and then barked at me!!

Jax
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that last burst of energy is still going strong over here @ 6months! Jax will circle the house, run up and down the hallway. We just say " go, go, go".

 drove us crazy in the beginning, but seems to put him down for the night when he is done. BTW it happens after his 20min night walk????

Good Luck!

You didn't mention if you were using a crate or not, it didn't sound like not if she is allowed to jump on the bed. At that age they are still such tiny babies and crates help them to feel secure it is there den. Much like a baby they need a bedtime ritual and a bedtime, the crate helps establish some of this.

Jax
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Crates/Kennels are excellent, Jax hates the crate. But at bedtime after he wears himself out, he goes in without a fuss....not a sound from him until 4:30am! He's on my schedule in bed by 9:30/10pm up @ 4:30. It also helps with the housebreaking and gives us ALL a timeout.....lol.

Ruger_Armed's picture
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A crate is a must for a puppy it helps them feel secure sure they will drive you nuts at first our first Do e actually broke out of his teal crate and tore the whole sides apart but after he got put back on he realized that he wasn't getting out it takes a while but they do eventually calm down and it is a great vonus to have a crate for when you leave so they don't do puppy pplaytime while your gone lOl

Princess Isis's picture
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I totally agree on the kennel theory, it's my other half, my fiancee that isn't too keen on them...he feels that since dobermans are prone to hip dysplasia that having her in a kennel will only make that inevitable.. I have tried to convince him otherwise but haven't won that battle yet...

Ruger_Armed's picture
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Well Princess Isis

 

To tell you the truth my new Dobe Ruger "had him for 2 weeks" he sleeps on a pillow bed in the corner of my room but when we leave the house he is kept in kennel only because I do not know him too well yet and not sure what he will do alone lol but it isn't very often he is left alone due to the fact we have 3 stay at home adults. I am more like your husband I think crating is kinda mean but all the proffessionals say it is not and they are den animals which does make sense but I am a pushover

 

If you do let her sleep in your room without a kennel just make sure she has her own bed or the kennel with the door open and just let her cry herself to sleep it will take a few days or maybe even weeks but it is well worth it in the end at least you know she is ok and in sight

Dobermans are not a breed that has prevalent hip problems such as the GSD's. Having them sleep in a crate with a nice padded surface will certainly not contribute to hip dysplasia. Crate training is a recommended practice with the DPCA. If it were a cause or contributed to hip dysplasia they would not recommend or have so many articles on their site about it.

talisin's picture
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Crating is great!!! All my dogs LOVE their crates. When we first got Ben he would freeze halfway in the doorway to his crate and you could tell he was waiting for you to hurt him or something, but with patience of just standing there and doing nothing until he went in and then praising him, and then later we had to use treats to coax him in if we were in a hurry and didn't have 15 minutes to stand and wait, he got to where he now knows my routine and when I get my purse he knows if he doesn't get a leash snapped on he has to go to his crate and he goes right in and now I have to wake him up when I get home he's so comfortable. Dogs love their crates if they are allowed to enjoy them. Make it comfy with a nice ortho bed or their favorite current bed. The other thing about crating is that if you ever had to crate due to an emergency or a health issue you are not trying to crate train your dog in that instant or during a stressful time best that they learn early so in an emergency they will just run right in and save you valuable time.

Make sure you get the right size crate - you definitely don't want one too small for your dog; my rotties crate is HUGE so he can stand up without tilting his head down and it is big enough for him to turn around easily. The people here can help you decide on the size if you need help.

Princess Isis's picture
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Joined: 2012-06-18

Thank you all for your great input! We currently have her sleeping at night in a big box w/ her blanket and pillow, she is quickly out growing that, so more than likely we are going to get her her own bed, kinda worried cause she doesn't go to the restroom in her box, she barks when she needs to go cause she can't jump out, but with her bed...that will be a new adventure!

And why dont you think she doesn't go to the bathroom in her box...because it is like a DEN or otherwise a CRATE. You are doing the same thing a crate does but in a box. Your fiancee does not make any sense in his theory if you are already having her sleep in a box. Where is your breeder to coach you through your issues?

Dawn D's picture
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Monty sleeps in our bedroom, in his own bed.  We too have the problem of the excessive activity just before going to sleep but, once he does get in his bed, he's out for the count until I get up the next day!

I'd love to be able to crate train him but I have two problems with this:

1.  The rescue shelter he came from are adamant that none of their animals are ever crated.  If they are, the dog or cat will be taken from its new family.

2.  At 6 months old, he's probably too old to train, isn't he?

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We associated bedtime with our home alarm. Apollo and peanut will be going crazy but once that alarm is turned on, they crate up and i imagine go to bed. I have never really looked to see what they do after that.

Sandee's picture
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I found if we play with Ember and take her for a walk about 1-2 hours before we go to bed, then she is ready.  Its like she gets ramped up after a walk, running in circles through the house.  I think she is just so happy with the walk,it fires her up. Its like shes running around telling us how much fun she had.  Like a child when they come home from the zoo, or birthday party.  Very excited,. and needs to come down off the excitement.   Once she runs around a few times (which by the way is the funniest, cutest thing)  we bring her bed out by the couch.  Tell her to lay down, she goes and then just sits calmly like a statue for 5 minutes or so, then lays down and we watch TV for an hour and then we all are ready to go to bed. Sometimes she gnaws at her bone for a while.  Her crate is in our room, which is the only way she will take it.   She sleeps all night in her crate, but she hated it , especially when I would leave the house and put her in it. she would howl like a deranged animal.  I thought she was never going to get used to it.  Well, about 2 weeks ago, I saw her go into the crate on her own and take a nap.  She has done that a couple of times now.  Shes 11 months, and one thing that I learned having a puppy is patience and consistency is a must.

I did fail to mention, even in her restful comfortable position on her bed, she will sense the cat walking in the living room and then the prey drive kicks in.  She always has energy for chasing the cat.   lol  Some things are just too tempting.  .....poor kitty.

6 months old is not too late to train.  A dog can be trained anytime in their life, and should be trained every day of his life. 

Dawn D's picture
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Sandee, I meant with crate training.  If I do decide to risk the wrath of the animal rescue place Monty came from (and that's if they find out), is it too late to start crate training now?

talisin's picture
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wow Dawn I never heard of a rescue saying to NEVER use a crate, that's a bit radical; and if they understood dogs they would understand that a crate is in the best interest of the dog. I would suggest that you begin crate training now; is someone going to report you??? do you have these people in the rescue come over regularly??? do they just drop in??? will they ever see a crate at your home??? and if they do I am sure that you could explain and educate them on the purpose of a crate..... where did they keep their dogs before adoption??? running loose somewhere???.......

do not ignore crate training it is a blessing and a great help in emergencies - our neighbors house caught on fire a few years back and if my dogs had not been crate trained I would have been scared to death that one would have gotten out and lost during the rushing around to remove items from the house and move cars and leave - that's how close our house was to catching fire, but I had crates and called the dogs and in they went with no balking or refusal and that enabled me to run and catch cats and direct people while knowing my dogs were safe and then could be move out of the house by anyone, with no worries.

Crates are excellent, dogs are denning animals and will usually choose to sleep in their crate if the door is open at all times, it's their preference, so a rescue with those radical views needs abit of education......

Dawn D's picture
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I'm not disputing any of that, Talisin, just saying that the place Monty came from are vehemently against it.  Here's the link to their web page where they say why...

 http://www.hollyhedge.org.uk/crating.asp

The founder/owner of the sanctuary is the person who instills this rule, along with many others.

They, as an organisation, reserve the right to do spot checks on the homes of 'their' animals, so there is a possibility that they could do this and see a crate, if I decide to take that route.

With regard to 'educating' this woman, I wouldn't waste my breath!

talisin's picture
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Thanks I will check out that link, I can't believe they would not be educated in the excellent reasons for crating, I wonder how they contain their animals until they are adopted??? aren't they crated??? hmmmm......kinda weird I will check 'em out.....

Hey there is a new crate it looks like a piece of furniture and has closures that make it look an end table that would work for you, you could disguise it if they showed up to spot check so they didn't freak out and dog stayed safe and happy......if you want the name of the company that has those I will be happy to let you know.

Dawn D's picture
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No, they don't crate their animals until new homes are found.  They have purpose built kennels and a cattery.  The kennels all have an indoor area and an outdoor run.  Dogs are housed individually unless they are taken in together from the same family.  They also have 3 huge outdoor compounds where every dog gets to spend some time every day to run freely when their kennel is cleaned out.  In addition to the kennel maids (and lads) there are volunteer dog walkers so, between them, every dog is taken out for walkies at least twice a day.  It's not ideal but it's better than being taken to a dogs' home or a vet to be put to sleep.  Dogs can also be fostered until their permanent homes can be found so they're living in a home environment rather than being in kennels.

I'm not saying they're right in their stance against using crates, just pointing out that there are people against them as well as for them.

At the moment, I don't know what to do.

Sheebaroo's picture
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At the moment, I don't know what to do.

Easy -------->Make Monty a DEN. As it has already been stated dogs are den animals, a den can be a crate -- kennel, or ------- wait for it ------ a corner of your living room where Monty's bed is and some furniture is strategically placed with just enough room for Monty to get to his bed. Hope this helps, i think your Dobe can have a den, consider it his ( safey safe ) spot.

And i have always found, just to add to it, dogs that are crate, kennel trained are overall better dogs, if the dog is not left in the crate, kennel hours on end, a kennel is not made to be a dog sitter.  

talisin's picture
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Exactly, kennels and crates are not supposed to be the only place they stay, it's supposed to be a safe haven for them after surgery, if they are ill, if they need time out, while you are out for a bit, etc. not the only place. My house has crates everywhere. I like the idea of the furniture denning in the corner and the furniture piece I was talking about is similar to this:

bet 1941's picture
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I have been scanning rescues for a dobi as some of you know.. everyone has the dogs crate trained.. once they are crate trained things go so much easier.. they are safe from getting into things too .. Like puppies they dont get in some bad habits.. 

When I had big dogs 20 yrs ago i didnt know about crates but I knew that dogs dont mess their sleeping area so I created one.. years later with my little dogs I bought crates.. my first poodle always in one at night and when I left the house for 16 month of her life.. she never had bad chewing habits and was great with potty training..

I only had one that freaked out with the crate.. he traveled on a plane for 10 hours when he was 4 month old.. I took him out at the airport and he velcroed to me.. I really tried to put him in at night and he would never calm down.. but it is a great tool for training I know with breeders of small dogs they feed them in crates and that is a place they like

Hugs

Bet

Dawn D's picture
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I do know that, thank you, Talisin.  We are not strangers to big dogs and have had crates before, just not with rescue dogs and not with ones which haven't been trained from birth, hence my question specific to training a 6 (now 7) month old Doberman.

Thank you, Sheebaroo, we do have a corner in the lounge which is Monty's - it has his bed, toys, etc and is 'his' place.  Similarly in the bedroom, he has his night-time bed.

As I've already stated, we have no problems at night-time.

Also, I am at a loss as to why everyone seems to think I'm against having a crate.

talisin's picture
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Hi Dawn I personally didn't think you had a problem with the crate I knew it was the rescue and you want to do what they expect and require for their adopted out dog. I just didn't understand why a rescue would not understand about crating. In fact that is one thing about rescuing that is usually a great thing is that they are already crate trained cause they have to keep them in crates when they the fosters go out and about so the dog is crate trained when it comes to you. If your dog is not trained and is still a youngster you might try the quick/easy technique where you put the dog in the crate for a minute or two and go out the door so they hear the door shut then come right back in and let the dog out and keep that up until you can start extending the time. If your dog begins barking do not let the dog out until it quiets down, the second it gets quiet then let them out so they realize they only get to come out when they are quiet. That should desensitize the dog to the length of time you might be gone and help to teach that it might be a minute or two but it might be an hour or so that they will be in the crate. It will be slow but you can do it. You can always teach a dog new things, and dobermans are quick studies so he should get it in no time. And I have found that rescue dogs seem to want to please and learn with a bit less rebellion than other dogs.

Dawn D's picture
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Thanks, Talisin.  I was feeling persecuted for a while there.

I wasn't sure about traing Dobies late with crates, which is why I asked.

This particular rescue dog isn't interested in pleasing anyone but himself, probably because he had about 13 weeks of doing just that right in his imprint period when he needed to learn the basics about everything.

He's not doing so well, sadly, but there are brief moments when we see the gorgeous dog inside that he's going to grow up to be.

talisin's picture
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Awww poor guy, I had a stray dog adopt us one time that was only interested in himself it took a long time for him to decide that maybe just maybe people weren't so bad after all and that he would get more goodies if he did what WE wanted instead of ignoring us.

Hang in there if you can see hope then there is some......keep us posted on his progress.....rescues are a good bunch if you can get past some of the baggage that comes in with some of them....

Does he like to do things??? maybe you could get him a backpack and he could work a bit and carry some things while out on walks or something??? that might let him know that things get more interesting when people are involved....

Dawn D's picture
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It's not that he doesn't like people - quite the reverse.  He's way too friendly and wants to be with us ALL the time.  To the point that he seems to need to be touching me constantly, just to make sure I don't go away.  Comes from being left for 11 hours a day and then dumped in a shelter, I suppose.

The problem is, he's used to doing what pleases him and hasn't grasped that he needs to please us too by way of doing 'normal' doggy things, even the basics elude him most of the time.

Still, we'll get there eventually.  He's got a wonderful character and is so gentle when he's not bouncing around like a maniac.

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It's my understanding that the need to touch their human all the time is just part of being a doberman and not from baggage from previous experiences, he's just being a doberman.....he will get the hang of things eventually......my collie never learned to play, if I threw a toy he would run in terror the other way and the only toy he would play with was one that would laugh and say "happy halloween" and laugh again in a human voice, if it squeaked he would drop it like it was toxic......sometimes we just have to accept that they will never get over some things....

Dawn D's picture
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That's nice to know.  I'm hoping that once October is done with (testicle removal time) things will calm down a little.  I was also told that it takes a good 6 months for a rescue dog to get used to its new surroundings, although I can't quite believe it takes that long.  One lady told me that things may turn a corner when he's been with us longer than he's been anywhere else, because he may feel he's going to be left somewhere again so won't quite relax.  On that basis, that'll be around the middle of this month.  Fingers crossed she was right!

talisin's picture
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Ben fit right in but didn't blossom until after we went to the rottie event that was also an adoption day and Ben was used to going to adoption events and being overlooked so he fell into the routine of being at an adoption event, but then when we put him in the car and headed home you could see him smile and when we pulled in the drive he was so happy and since then he has really begun to show his personality more. So the adoption event triggered him to realize he had a permanent home. We adopted him last August and the rottie event was June of this year so he finally accepted he had a home ten months later, but he fit in right away. I am thinking you will have the same thing, your dog will fit right in but after a certain length of time you will see a blossoming take place and then you will know he knows it's for real.....

Dawn D's picture
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That's a lovely story, Talisin.  I hope the same happens with Monty.  We've passed the point where he's been with us longer than he's been anywhere else in his short life, but he's still not getting it's for real yet.

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The other thing I noticed was that when it finally clicked for HIM that he belonged then he started to show behavior he had been keeping under wraps, some are funny others are "what they heck are you doing/thinking Ben" type things. He got more barky and more territorial and began marking things as we walked, he never lifted his leg and now he does, he always squatted before, keep in mind he is 8 years old so this is new to us since it took him a year to lift his leg, it's not like he's a young dog finally getting around to it. You will be surprised as the personality starts to come out when it clicks....