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eileennellie's picture
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So Dobie has been behaving good lately, no issues w/me or anyone else, which is impressive since we moved & live w/4 guys & another male dog now. But the other night, my boyfriend was laying on my bed on his back w/ Dobie & Paris laying on each side of him. I should mention that he doesn't like Dobie & just shoos him away or ignores him, though he used to play w/him & give him attention, which Dobie loved. also, he was drinking at the time. But he randomly reached around Dobie's neck & grabbed him while laying under him, which is something Dobie doesn't like. He knows that Dobie doesn't like to be restrained or roughhouse w/people at all. I don't even do it myself.I saw what he was doing & immediatly went for Dobie to try to stop it before it happened, but Dobie did get a gouge in his head before I grabbed him. I feel horrible that it happened, & Dobie was trembling so bad he had trouble standing up right after it. But I can't help but think that my boyfriends behavior was less than smart, since he knew those were actions that Dobie is not comfortable with, & that he has no other interactions or relationship w/him, & was not sober either. I keep Dobie out of the room when he is around now, since he refuses to be around him. But is this really all Dobie's fault, or am I wrong in thinking it's not all him? I knew berofe it happened that it was going to, & I can't help but think my boyfriend should not have behaved in a way that he was aware would cause Dobie's reaction.

KevinK's picture
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Short and simple... Pick 1... dog or bf, because you will never, ever have both and be happy if your bf hates your dog and would deliberately do something he knows the dog doesn't like.  Doesn't make it ok for the dog to bite, but serves him right.  What happens if you and your bf become serious?  He makes you get rid of the dog?  You found dobe wandering the streets, right?  So who knows what his past was like, your bf's actions may have brought out memories of abuse from the previous owners.  If you can't get your bf on the same page, one of them has to go, end of story, or the next post will be much, much worse than this one.

DJ's Dad's picture
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I totally agree w/ KevinK.

Lady Kate's picture
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Ditto!!

Bye bye BF!!!

Anyone who dislikes dogs, Dobermans or otherwise needs to be kicked to the curb.. ( Do people still say that??)

Just think.. first he shoo's Dobie Gillis away.. Can you be next??

jennymattei's picture
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Joined: 2010-09-29

I agree with everyone else! Plus I say trust your Dobe's instincts! They are usually right!!!!

 

I still use "kicked to the curb"...haha

AlphaAdmin's picture
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Such things can't be a dog's fault. Dogs simply react to the situation based on what they've been conditioned to do in the past. They don't think and ponder, nor do they poison their judgment with alcohol.

I agree with the others here. People who can't conduct themselves thoughtfully around a dog are usually suffering from a deficit in character.

DjKsHawk's picture
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Amen to that!!!

Im with all of these guys!

Personally I'd tell the BF Buh-BYE!!!! and not to let the door hit him where the good lord split him!

jeshykai's picture
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Okay, I am going to assume that you aren't in a position to leave your boyfriend and probably don't want to.  But you need to think about what is healthiest for you and for your dog.  This scenario isn't good and I'm sure you know it.

I liked this article on breaking down aggression: http://www.neilsnet.com/archives/aggression.shtml

The more you understand what is causing Dobie to feel so insecure he must attack, the more you can work with him on this.  If your boyfriend isn't going to get on board with this dog you need to consider what this means for Dobie.  I can tell you that having a person hate your animal is a very big problem.  My pomeranian is a rescue from my friend who hated him (it was her husbands dog).  She waited until they got married and pregnant and then demanded the dog either get euthanized or get a new home.  I stepped in and Harry lives with me now.  I'm not demonizing your boyfriend because I know from experience of my friends what a struggle it was in their relationship to have the dog and the fact that one loved him, the other hated him (because of that love).  It was hard on both parties, harder on the dog (he had to spend a lot of time locked outside).  

If you're going to stay with your boyfriend you might want to consider finding Dobie a home in which the situation is better for him.  If his aggression is fear based, your living with multiple people, multiple dogs, and a person who can't stand him is only going to intensify these insecurities.  I'm not trying to be mean or say you'd be wrong for keeping him, just trying to help you see the bigger picture.

Working with a professional trainer is probably a MUST for you at this point.  You have a ticking-bomb on your hands with Dobie.  If he can attack (even if provoked) a man he knows, what happens when a stranger comes too close to him and he attacks?  What happens if animal control gets called? What if he gets loose and a kid tries to go up to him and he panics and feels cornered?  Seek help! 

Lori's picture
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The dog was afraid and reacted in the only way a dog knows how - he lashed out and bit.  Your boyfriend doesn't sound so bright at all to act the way he did around a dog.

 

In my opinion anyone that purposfully mistreats an animal is NOT a good human being and grabbing a dog around the neck that has possibly been abused, therefore bringing back those memories IS abuse pure and simple.  Lose the Loser...Or at least have the guts to inform him that his behaviour will not be tolerated.

eileennellie's picture
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I have no intention of finding Dobie another home, I love that dog & Paris & I would be heartbroken w/out him. I don't feel that he would be happy w/out us, either. I have explained to my bf that it was not dobie's fault that things went the way they did. & that he is to just keep his distance from Dobie. I do have both dogs sleep in their beds just outside my bedroom door when my bf is sleeping over, which I know is what I should have been doing all along, rather than letting them sleep in my bed w/me. They don't seem to mind it at all, there was no whining or pawing at the door at all the 1st night, so that's a step in the right direction. & Dobie is actually calming down a bit towards other dogs now that he shares a backyard separated by a wire fence w/another dog. He is good w/all the guys I live w/also.  I believe it was just an unfortunate perfect storm sort of situation that caused the attack. If it came down to it, of course i would keep my dog. I adopted him knowing full well he had a rough past, & I would NEVER consider giving him up. He will always be safe living w/me,even if that means the people around me have to change, or go. I think that drinking & Dobie don't mix, so that's a new rule at my house. But we are going to be going to see someone about his behavior issues, even so. I just don't know how qualified anyone in my area is to handle a case like Dobie's. I didn't think I was wrong in my belief that it was not Dobie's fault, but it is still nice to know others agree w/me & I'm not just siding w/him because he's my dog.

jeshykai's picture
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I'm glad to hear all of that and I'm sure Dobie is too.  Those are good steps you made and I'm sure the longer you have Dobie the easier things will get.  If you aren't sure who might work for Dobie why don't you call around to the local vets and see who they recommend.  When people are qualified they should have stories and examples and references for you to check to make sure its worth spending your money on them.

I wish you the best of luck.

eileennellie's picture
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Joined: 2008-04-21

Thanks. Now all I need to do figure out how Dobie keeps opening doors!

gingersmommy's picture
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eileennellie, I know it's hard to hear negative things when you "love" someone, but any man who deliberately does things to a dog knowing that the dog doesn't like it or will be paniced enough to bite has a screw loose.  Humans are bigger - and supposed to be smarter - plus our humanity enables us to have divine qualities like compassion, tenderness, reverance, mercy.  The fact that your BF wants to antagonize Dobie to this degree can't help but make you wonder about his qualities as a man and as a human being (I'm sorry).  Not everyone loves animals but to be deliberately mean to them is a very sobering thing.  I know this is a doberman site, but please don't marry this guy.  You would be in for a lifetime of misery, dominance and control - and everyone deserves better than that.

eileennellie's picture
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Joined: 2008-04-21

he wasn't trying to be mean, in fact, it was the opposite. he was attempting to engage Dobie in play, forgetting that Dobie doesn't take kindly to being caught off guard, which is exactly what happened. He's not ever mean to the dogs, or my cats. He just didn't think about what he was doing or how Dobie would take it.

Lady Kate's picture
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Okay Eileen.. How many times are you going to make excuses for your BF?? I'm so sorry and I know it's going to sound bitchy and mean, but look at the whole picture.

If the BF doesn't understand or refuses to research the facts on how to treat animals,( rescued or otherwise) how in the world can you trust him? What would he do with an infant with colic that kept him up all night? How would he handle a teething two year old with an attitude of Godzilla?

Honey- Lamb...It's abuse plain and simple. I fear for YOUR safety as well as Dobie's.

Are we being too dramatic here? No, not at all..It starts with verbal.. it continues on with emotional then before you know it.. POW.. "to the Moon Alice.." I'm sorry ( why am I apologizing?) I've worked with abused families and know the pattern... it seems so innocent and 'explainable' because you're in love.. but if you ...

stop

read your posts

pretend you're someone else

re-read

then let's hear what your reation.

If your best friend called you and reported the things you've allowed us to read, what would you say?

Trust your gut, not your heart.

Thank you for writing. it's the first step and feel free to PM me.. Let's talk

love Katie

jeshykai's picture
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Get a trainer, don't put it off.  Get your boyfriend to work with you and Dobie and trainer.  Think about what other people have said.  Consider your options after you've seen how much time and effort the boyfriend is willing to put into you and your dog.  He should be game to do it because it's important to you.  Just use it as a test of character. 

Everyone's responses on here are because they want to make sure you and Dobie are okay.  Hope you read it that way.

rgreen4's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-26

Jeshykai - that is an excellent point. If bf is willing to put in the time to work with Dobe and his gf, then there may be hope. The proof in the pudding, however is how he follows through with the training. If he does it half hearted, then eileen will know, if he does it with good effort, then eileen will know that too.

Eileen, just don't tell bf that this is a test for him, not Dobie. Actually, most training is aimed at the human not the dog. It's the humans who need to be trained on how to interact with the dogs properly.

However, don't forget that our Dobies are very intelligent and intuitive, able to read at an instant the feelings and intents of humans. If you trust Dobie, you will never be wrong.

Dabbles's picture
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Joined: 2009-02-20

I should mention that he doesn't like Dobie & just shoos him away or ignores him, though he used to play w/him & give him attention, which Dobie loved. also, he was drinking at the time.

RED FLAG!  RED FLAG!  RED FLAG!

IMHO Jeshykai & RGreen are right, but so is Lady Kate! 

Why did BF suddenly decide he didn't like Dobie?  Does he do the same things to Paris?  Keep your antennae up and alert about this guy PLEASE!

Keep us posted because we are all concerned about you, Dobie & Paris.

eileennellie's picture
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Joined: 2008-04-21

He is nice to Paris, although he does shoo her off after a few minutes of her demanding attention from him. He was nicer to Dobie when he was younger, probably because he was only 4 or 5 months old, still fairly small & puppy-ish. We had been dating for about 10 months at that time, so it wasn't like he was trying to impress me or anything like that. He even preferred to walk Dobie when we took the dogs on walks.  But i think as Dobie got bigger (& scarier, perhaps?) he got less interested in dealing w/him. Dobie does have some bad habits, like jumping up on me. But he doesn't do it to my bf or anyone else, just me, & just when I come home. My bf did say that he hates the way Dobie treats me, whatever that means. He is a dog, clearly, & not a person, so I don't see how that comment can be logical...I do believe it's possible he gets jealous of Dobie, too. I admit I spoil my dogs, but it's always the dog that behaves worse & acts up that seems to get the most attention, which is definatly Dobie. So maybe my bf is a bit jealous & maybe a bit scared of Dobie, leading to this anti-Dobie attitude? I have got the dogs back to sleeping in the bedroom when he is here again, just not in the bed, which I know i shouldn't let them do at all anyway. So that's a step in the right direction, but I haveb't brought up the subject of him working w/me & the dogs & a trainer just yet. It seems to me that it's really his problem at this point, so he can deal w/it w/out causing me & the dogs any grief for the time being, or he can not come over if that's too much for him to do.

jeshykai's picture
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The trainer is for you too.  Dobie needs it, not the boyfriend.  You need help to get the structure a trainer can show you that will only enhance and enrich Dobie's life and make him less fearful and build his confidence.  

bbroyles's picture
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Joined: 2010-09-09

After reading all these posts from dog loving people, and you especially, I have come to the conclusion that you are right, your instinct is telling you that your bf is jealous and insecure.  These are traits found in "bullying" types.  Everyone is telling you what you are refusing to face. Of course we are not there with you and there are translations, emotions, expressions that just don't communicate 100 percent thru the written language.

Let him go. Do not punish yourself and your dogs because of his choices.  You can find another place to live. You will never be happy with him and more so, he will eventually bring you down.  I can hear it in your voice. I have lived in an abusive situation. I wasted 8 youthful years of my life because I didn't know how to get out. I suspect that you may have already been pushed around a bit, if so...statistically you have a very small chance that his behavior will do anything but worsen.

You sound like a young woman, you are very caring and courageous to take on this dog.  Now follow thru for your dog and for yourself. Let the guy go.  Plenty of men that are caring and will support your efforts.  Perhaps you'll meet one at training! or the vet's or somewhere else you have in common interests with.

We are thinking of you and your dogs' well-being and futures...

History Repeats Its Self. Use caution and be truthful with yourself. We all want to help you. Stay in touch with someone. You could use some support. Remember, there are ways to leave, you can find them.

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Please note that I am not defending the boyfriend here, but here are my thoughts.  Some people are just not dog savvy.  We know how incredibly intelligent our dogs are, but many people think that dogs think like people do and don't understand basic dog language. My husband was not a dog person, though he loved our recently departed border collie mix, he really fell in love with Buster and is now listening to me about how to treat him and Fancy.  It's a learning experience for sure. The best part is that he's willing to learn and enjoy the dogs. 

Buster is a very friendly little guy, but sounds the alarm with hair raised when someone comes to the door. Being home alone most of the time, this is not a problem for me.  All anyone has to do is say hi to him and he's fine. But when people are afraid of him, he nevers lets his guard down, because he instinctively doesn't trust them. But he's very affectionate and excited to see " dog lovers."  There are people that come over (friends of my grown daughter) that he just doesn't like and I tend to trust his instincts.

So I'm thinking that getting the bf involved with the trainer and your dogs would help, even if he just observes the training sessions. Until the tension eases somehow, your dog is going to be on guard whenever he is around, and that's constant stress for all of you. I truly wish you the best in a tough situation.

eileennellie's picture
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Fortunately, the dogs & I do not live w/my boyfriend. And he is far from the bullying type, the worst behavior that he has is what I would describe as cranky or moody, & that is pretty infrequently.  It's not an abusive situation, I have dealt w/that before, & have ZERO tolerance for mean people nowadays. Also, he is the younger one here, he's 22 & I'm 30! Seemed like a big age gap to me at first, but it's been over a year w/out ever being an issue, or even noticeable.  I don't have a lack of support, luckily. I live w/my brothers girlfriends ex-husband ( whew! ) & his 14 & 19 year old sons, & they are very protective of the only female in the house. My best friend of 15 years lives 2 blocks from me, & I'm still good friends w/my ex boyfriend of 5 years, so he has good input, since he knows what it's like to be my boyfriend. Although he loves my dogs, I take them to visit him a few times a month & they are always thrilled to see him & their old yard!  It's true, though, some people are just not dog savvy. I try to remember that & explain why Dobie does certain things or acts a certain way to my boyfriend, but I forget & assume other people already know this stuff, or I talk to him like he SHOULD know this stuff already, which I know is condescending & rude. Dobie is hard for others to read, my roommates included. They have a Rottweiler mix, making them dog people, to a lesser extent than me. I can tell that they don't know what he is going to do, or even if he is happy or planning to ambush them. He does seem to keep very alert & watchful of them, & tends to dash away if anyone moves towards him to pet him. He did growl @ my 40 year old roommate once when I was sitting on my bed & he came to tell me something. Dobie was on the floor between us & he went to pet him, but Dobie stood up, put his head down really low & let out a scary sounding low growl. I told him before Dobie stood up that I thought he should back away from him before he got bit, it was very obvious, but until the growling, he didn't notice a problem. I believe we have a trainer here that is qualified to help Dobie & I, hopefully. i have a hunch that he is extremely capable of being good around people, but not attempting to kill any dog he sees may prove to be a challenge even for a pro.

Lori's picture
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sounds like progress anyway - it also sounds like a trainer or behaviourist would be a benefit to you both.  

bbroyles's picture
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I'm sorry if I spoke out of turn.  Just concerned that you and your dogs may not be in the best company.  I hope that you have many successes with the training!

eileennellie's picture
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Yep, the boyfriend had to go! Everyone is much happier w/out him around. He was just too bitchy and negative about EVERYTHING! I have been spending time with my ex boyfriend, whom Dobie adores & is always thrilled to see. He even listens to him & never tries to act dominate towards him, so it's nice that he has at least one male to spend time with. From now on, only dog friendly people will be allowed around us. I think that probably means I will have to stick with the ex Dobie loves, as I don't see him ever welcoming (or even tolerating) any new guys. And I can't risk having the same thing happen again, that's unfair to put Dobie in that situation ever again. But at least we have averything figured out in that area!

laith's picture
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yay!! see our boys ALWAYS know best. If my boyfriend even raises his voice at me Laith goes up and starts barking in his face. And it's HIS DOG (paperwork) but we all know better. ;)

But I do have to say males will be males. Even my bf and Laith butt heads at times but he knows to always be respectful of Laith to get the same treatment back. They play rough together with a lot of Laiths butt in his face and him pushing Laith away fighting for who's 'the man of the house'. But when its over Laith is by his side relaxing and happy!  

chris b.'s picture
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Joined: 2011-01-20

congrats on getting rid of the bf.  and welcome to the forum (better late than never on both accounts).  Just found your post. wish I had found it earlier.  ALWAYS trust Dobies instincts.   And you and Dobie will find the right man...for both of you 

blue4's picture
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Yeah, I'm chiming in really late here...just wanted to say welcome and glad your situation worked out for the best.

Lady Kate's picture
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Eileen

So glad to see you back on the Forum and relieved that BF is g-o-n-e!

You  made a very wise decision.

bbroyles's picture
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Joined: 2010-09-09

Hi there, Eileen! Great to see you back minus the bf :) and good that Dobie G has a good male role model! How' Dobie doing?

eileennellie's picture
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Joined: 2008-04-21

We are looking into getting Dobie a basket muzzle. It's just too hot here to use his mesh one on walks, poor guy gets hot so fast! Even in the early A.M. it's been into the 70's here! Or it's barely in the 40's, which the dogs have made clear is too cold for their liking! But Dobie did get to see my ex yesterday, he stopped to say goodbye on his way out of town. (moved 150 miles away from here.) Dobie is unpredictable sometimes, so I held on to his collar to see how he reacted. He looked at him, then me, back at him, then looked utterly disinterested in him & layed down & chewed on a bone, while watching him the whole time out of one eye. He was good, but still very clearly keeping an eye on the situation! He may be a bit crazy, but that dog constantly shows how much he loves his mommy!

bbroyles's picture
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I was just looking at your photos and got such a chuckle from Dobie forcing Paris to cuddle. This breed has such a sense of humor!

eileennellie's picture
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Just got Dobie a shock collar, And wow, is it the best purchase I have ever made! He learned the 1st day that when he is acting up in the house the word "collar" means business. I don't even have to put it on him inside! On walks, I keep it at level 2 or 3 (out of 8) and he is doing SOOO much better! I actually chatted w/a neighbor I hadn't ever met before w/out having to drag him away while shouting apologies over his horrible angry chirping noises! (She said they were pretty dogs, too!) We walked twice as far as usual today, and the return trip was muzzle-free! I think I've probably had to zap him a dozen or so times in 2 days, he is a super fast learner, even compared to Paris. He is just behaving better in general, probably due in part to the longer walks. We may be able to have a semi-normal social life after all