Bites all the time

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LSUfan1988's picture
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Joined: 2013-02-02

So Les is now 12 weeks old and he likes to bite when he plays, and this agrivates my wife. When he bites too hard we close his mouth with our hand and say "no bite" but as soon as we let go he tries to bite our hand. My wife is wondering if anybody has any other methods that may work better or if this is to be expected from a puppy. Also house breaking...... Hes not doing very good with it. Now if I offer to take him out he will got but other than that if I don't notice him sniffing he will jus pop a squat. But I've heard that dobermans take a little longer when It comes to housebreaking. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks.

Kim
Kim's picture
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Joined: 2012-02-05

You might try pushing towards him when he bites, instead of yanking away, with an "eh! eh!" along with it. It's not as much fun as when you move away from him. A re-direct to a favorite toy might work too. There's also no "bite too hard" - he shouldn't bite at all. So, you have to be consistent - I'm sure he is not able to discern what is too hard, and what isn't.

As for the piddling - lol! - he's still quite young. Gabe had "emergency" piddles - as in, no warning, just stop and pee - until he was about 4 months old. I was exasperated, but just kept at it - again, making a noise at him if I caught him doing it. Then I'd take him outside with lots of praise for piddles in the right area. You have to take them out - a LOT! - at that age.

HarleyBear's picture
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You should always have a chew toy on you and your wife at all times.  Be quick and when he goes to bite you, shove that into his mouth.  If he drops it to bite you, put it back in his mouth.  Harley was pretty sensitive, so a loud high pitch "Ouch!" worked really well.  Then I would offer him the toy.  I also never moved my hand away (makes it seem like a toy), I waited for him to move his teeth off me, which he did every time because the "Ouch!" was enough for him to do so.  If he got really wound up, then I would use time-outs (not in the crate).

Here are my two cents on potty training.  If you can't actively watch him, he should be in in crate (no longer than an hour).  If he is out and about playing with you, he needs to potty when he gets out of the crate, potty after he eats, potty after he  plays, potty after a nap, and every 20 minutes besides those instances.  I know that sounds tedious, but they have tiny bladders!  And every accident he has will make the potty training longer.  I used my kitchen timer set for every 20 minutes.  Once he got the idea that he needed to go out to pee, I used bells for him to signal to me that it was time to go out.  If you decide to use bells, be careful, because they get smart!  Let's just say 2 years later those bells are no longer on the door.  I did put them up when we moved into the new house (or if we go on vacation) to let him know that potty rules apply in those places as well. It is really hard for dogs to generalize.

Tannaidhe's picture
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Joined: 2013-02-25

Go-outside-time rule of thumb until they are solidy housebroken is about once an hour if they are confined (except for overnight, which is 4 hours) or every 20 minutes or so if they are loose.  It's a pain in the butt for a month or two, but it pays off in the end.  At about four months you can start gradually increasing that time, but if he has an oops, backslide it a bit.

As for the biting, Kim is totally right in that no biting is acceptable.  If he actually bites you, even in play, yelp loudly...  you know that high-pitched yelps puppies make?  Yeah, imitate that.  That's how they teach each other what is too hard. With Koko I only had to do that once or twice, and he quit biting hard.  Now we're working on the no-biting-at-all (he only mouths me now, not bites, but that still isn't acceptable.)  Any time his open mouth encounters skin, I say gruffly "No bite" and pull my hand/foot/whatever away.  Since he wants the loving or playing or whatever, taking it away is all the punishment required.  After he closes his mouth and gets that 'processing...' look, I go back to whatever I was doing.  This sometimes requires 5-10 repititions in a row!  lol  But he's already getting very good about it after only 2 weeks with us at 10 weeks old.

Joined: 2012-10-28

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I'll say it again, what works for us. Put your finger aor thumbnail into the middle of their toungue and hold it, now I only have to hook my finger at B. She's older though.

Good Luck!

More puppy pictures PLEEEEEASE

jpdobie's picture
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Although you need to teach Les the biting rules, I do want you to know there's a light at the end of the very long puppy tunnel.  Kevin's play nipping got really bad from 6-8 months.  We tried everything, and everything made it worse excpet for removing ourselves from him...just to avoid his mouth.  At 9 months, he hit this maturity bump. All of a sudden the biting and jumping stopped. He's now 10.5 months old and we are so pleased with his behavior.  All of our hard work and training paid off, but it wasn't easy or quick.  They go through testing periods...terrible twos and teenage rebellion.  I know he's still got a year to go before he's fully mature but he's just wonderful now.

So go with these suggestions, but know it won't be a quick fix and it might be a while until you find a strategy that works... but either way as long as you teach him biting is unacceptable, he'll get it eventually.  Maybe in another 6 months, but he will.

 

LSUfan1988's picture
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Joined: 2013-02-02

Thanks for the help everyone. I figured it would come with age. It seems like alot of thing come with maturity when It comes to dobermans. I just find it crazy hot there attention spand is so small as puppies and once they hit the age of adult hood there attention spand becomes that almost of a grown human. Its pretty cool.

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For the biting, the best thing to do is to redirect him to something that he CAN chew on, every single time.  Best bet is to try to catch him before he bites, not after.  This will teach him that when he wants to bite and chew something, there are appropriate ways to do so.  I prefer to not use positive punishment especially on pups.

For the accidents in the house, it becomes a matter of making sure your dog goes out enough.  He is a baby, and can't hold it long at all.  If there's an accident in the house, make a mental note to take him out more, and try to not leave him unattended at all.

APRIL's picture
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So this makes me feel so much better I am having all the same problems with my dobe. She is now 12 weeks old and still having the same problems. i thought it was from the breaders taking her away from mom/litter mates at 3 weeks old but i guess not... thanks to all for your help

HarleyBear's picture
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Actually April, taking a puppy away from their littermates that young makes the problem much worse.  You are going to have to work twice as hard to control bite inhibitition because your puppy wasn't around his littermates during that crucial learning period.  

You would still use the techniques described above, but you will have to be very consistent and it may take longer for your puppy to understand.

Good luck!

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WELL THATS WHAT I HAVE BEEN TOLD AND OTHERS HAVE TOLD ME I WOULD HAVE MANY OTHER PROBLEMS ALSO, THIS IS THE FIRST DOBE I HAVE EVER OWNED I HAVE ALWAYS HAD VERY SMALL DOGS AND AFTER MY LAST ONE PASSED AWAY @ 12YRS OLD MY SPOUSE WANT A DOBE SO WE DID. I HAVE BEEN DOING ALOT OF READING ABOUT THEM AND SOME OF THE PROBLEMS WE R HAVING WITH HER I NEVER HAD BEFORE WITH ANY OF MY OTHER DOGS. ALL OF MY CHILDREN R GROWN BUT NOW I HAVE A 1YR OLD GRANDBABY AND SHE IS ALWAYS BITING HER RIPPING HER SKIN AND MAKING HER BLEED. I KNOW IT NOT THE DOGS FAULT AND WE R TRYING TO CONTORL THIS BUT JUST SEEMD LIKE NOTHINGS WORKING. AND HOUSE BREAKING IS NOT GOING WELL EITHER SHE WILL NOT POOP IN THE HOUSE BUT SHE WILL PEE EVEN AFTER TAKING HER OUT AND HER PEEING OUTSIDE. WILL STILL COME IN AND POTTY A FEW MINS LATER. 

talisin's picture
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what worries me here is that you say that the doberman is "always" biting at the 1 year old?? and causing her to bleed???? this needs to be addressed immediately, if you know this is going to happen then leash the dog to someone who is not in close proximity with the child so that there is no interaction, never allow a dog to break the skin on a baby - for the baby's sake....until you can teach your dog to leave the baby alone on command and by that I mean as soon as you see the dog move towards the baby you stop that movement forward before any contact is made, you don't wait for contact you stop it before it happens, then don't let the two come into contact with each other, and teach the baby not to approach the dog unless you are there and supervising.....the baby is making sounds and is at the same eye level as the dog and that can present problems for them both.....if the dog has caused the baby to bleed then the humans involved have not been diligent with their monitoring of them both. Never let the baby run up on the dog and slap at or pinch which are tendencies in babies, see the similarity ?? dogs and babies both like to go up to new people/things and pinch/taste/squeeze/bite at things to learn about them.....neither should be allowed to do any of these things to the other......as for the peeing that will take someone here with pupsters to help with, I would say it might be anxiety peeing??? excitement peeing???

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talisin

your right the problem is not just the dog its both... my grandaughter thinks she can play with her like she plays with my moms little yorkie the is 8 yrs old. She does get excited and starts trying to slap and play with her but does not understand. So i try to keep them apart.

Pharaoh Hound's picture
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Peeing inside the house could be a sign of anxiety, excitement, or submission, depending on WHEN he piddled/dribbled. Males would usually dribble...mine did until about a year old, and occasionally when he gets over excited playing with my 2 other dogs and trying to hold his bladder.

Holding the muzzle with a NO BITE command is good, and if his mouth doesn't move even for a split second, say GOOD BOY! always praise, praise praise. If this doesn't work, yelp like a pup, ignore for 5 to 10 seconds then go back and play, don't say anything. If he does it again, yelp, ignore etc... If this doesn't work, bop the tip of the nose (very sensitive part) and say ah ah..., or redirection, (food almost always does if more food motivated than toy), or the part that gets nipped/bit plays dead.  In redirecting, praise when his eyes look at the toy/food. so be very watchful, bec. pups are like tornadoes/pistol. Pups are attracted to anything that moves (prey drive kicks in). The key word in everything is consistency in your command and in action...all the time.

Not to trust a pup with another baby...as talisin says..they are similar...both are babies. :)  Not to even FULLY trust a dog with a baby. There is always the risk of the dog having a bad day and bites the first thing it can get hold of..which is almost always the baby's hand, or face. We have read lots of that in the newspapers and blogs.

Hope this helps. :)

 

 

 

Linda Scott's picture
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Joined: 2013-07-16

Maybe our doberman SAmson is not as bad as we thought but just a normal? Doberman

He is nine months old and will sit at my feet for an hour if he has a chew toy and rarely has an accident .He is still niping and biting frequently ,we have tried benaca spray in the mouth this is difficult to have with you at all times,now I am holding his muzzle and slapping my hand but that is not very effective,hoping the biting discontinues as he gets older , will try ignoring him .Sam is Deaf ,so verbalization is not helpful

MartiWilcox's picture
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We are also having problems with a 4 month old Dre. He has started this new game.. It's called the biting our feet and pulling at our pantleg game. I understand he wants to play but now that he is getting a little bit older, his bite is starting to hurt now. I have tried redirecting him with a toy but almost immediatly goes back to our feet/ pantleg. Now I have no clue what to try.

 

As for potty training, Dre was potty trained within 5 days at about 12 weeks old. and since then we have not had any accidents inside the house!! :)

Joined: 2014-05-24

I have been having the exact same problem LSUfan1988 !! My puppy zayn  acts completely different with the men in my family he rolls over submissively and lots of love and licks, but with the women he is a puppy from hell and the teeth come out....he is a land shark I swear! Zayn has been biting everyone including me and I told everyone that if this is to ever happen with anyone they should grab his mouth and a firm "no" should be required. But honestly this just gets him more excited and more intense and starts to lunge at your face and bites anything in close range. He has broken skin on my hands and wrists, but nobody else....... yet. I put him in the bathroom for a 2-3 minute time out if it gets way too out of hand but honestly nothing seems to work. I have only had him for a week and being patient with his behavior has been extremely difficult. And as I speak he is curled up with my brother on the couch and a complete angel with the men in my family and never bites or nips at them. At this point I don't know what to do.

Oz Dobe's picture
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Play biting is an important facet of your dogs life. It gives him the proofing that makes both him and you safe out in the world. Dogs arent born knowing how fragile we are. They must be taught through experience, hence PLAY biting.

It starts at the mothers teat. Puppy bites too hard, mother gets up and the puppy misses his meal. The puppy plays with its littermates, it bites too hard in play, and its siblings stop play for a while. These are things we mimic when we recieve our pups at around 8wo.

Reinforce the positive behavior (not biting) with praise or treats. Get up and walk away from the unwanted behavior (biting) interupting the 'game' the puppy was playing with you. Put him in a time out if he doesnt stop. We are just mimicing or extending the same lessons taught while with his litter.

We are so worked up about punishing the behavior we dont want, we ignore the great behavior because we expect it. We expect it from an 8wo puppy who knows nothing about us and hasn't been taught the rules (because we expect them to know them). When a puppy offers us great behavior we should be throwing a party. But its ignored until it chews on something we think it shouldnt then its whacked with a rolled up newspaper...that'll learn it. Not.

Personally I prefer to interupt unwanted behaviors with either obedience excercises, or puppy games, even teaching a new 'trick' is good. Sit-down-sit, down-stand-down, hide and seek, fetch, tug the list is endless, and all can be done without shouting, or punishing. Dogs that are prevented from PLAY biting are ticking time bombs, because you have stopped the behavior before the dog has learned about its own jaw pressure. If it ever goes off - look out! The critical ingredient here is time and attention. Especially dobes. They need lots of attention. I cant overstate this.

It is vitally important that your dog/puppy is socialised in order for it to learn to have a soft mouth, to prevent accidental bites becoming serious, amongst both humans and other dogs. Puppies before 4mo are in the best position to be socialised in regards to PLAY biting, because they get a free pass due to the puppy licensing system. Older dogs will gently teach puppies how to use a soft mouth, but after this time, they will tolerate a rude or obnixous (under socialised) dog far less.

These issues dont fix themselves. They need to be proactively worked on EVERY DAY. A puppy does not wake up one day toilet trained, or knowing that his bite is too hard. Wishing or hoping is not going to make it happen.

APRIL Biting a baby to the point where it bleeds?? Do you really comprehend how dangerous this is! I'm incredulous. Please, please get some professional help with this dog if you are unable to work out how to keep your family safe. This is really urgent! Allowing this to continue is irresponsible. We are working hard here to free the Doberman breed of its frightening stereotype, and as a responsible Doberman owner, I need to say, if you can not quickly get this situation under control, you need to rehome the dog as quickly as you can, with full disclosure about what its issues are so that some one familiar with the breed can work to rectify the problem. Your 'breeder' needs to be shut down. Giving puppies to owners at 3wks should be criminal. A puppy opens it eyes and can hear at two to three weeks. That gives you some idea as to the depth of the problem here.

RE Toilet training. I dont know where you heard Dobermans take longer to toilet train than other breeds. That is simply not true. Dobermans are extremely clean and highly intelligent. This kind of talk may offer comfort to those who dont want to stand out in the rain at 1am while they wait for puppy to potty, but if you want to toilet train, this is what you must be prepared to do. Toilet training can easily be achieved simply by offering the puppy regular chances to toilet by taking them outside. Eventually they will potty at which point you throw a party and praise and treat. Do this a few times and the jobs done. Its not about when its convenient for us, its about what we must do for the puppy, period, full stop.

NOTE: if your heavily into 'disciplining' your puppy, and you don't praise, theres a good chance your dog is offering submissive urination. This is a sign of stress and should be avoided. Give dominance theory a rest and try praising for the positive behaviors, continue to take puppy outside and you will have a much better shot at toilet training.

NOTE 2: If your doing everything right, and you are still having issues, take puppy to the vet to check for any issues due to illness.

I find this thread very disconcerting...

Katopup's picture
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I totally agree with Oz, 

My pup is 10wks tomorrow and was a singleton, so no littermates, although he was raised til 8wks with 6 children up to 10yrs of age and 3 adult dogs, one being his mother.

Our pup came to us as a biting machine just 2wks ago and many piddles without warning in the house.

Oz as well as others have help with their advice hugely and our pup has calmed significantly in both areas.

Of course this is on going training and diligency with the toileting.

We have a 2 1/2yr old grand daughter and we keep Kato on a leash when she is around only allowing contact when he is in a calm mood.  Little kids high pitch voices and quick movements and running will rile your pup right up as he will see this as play time, so absolutely no contact unless he calms, this has been working well for us but we have been consistently working on his biting and letting him know what he can chew on which is not us.

Try wearing him out before your grand daughter visits so he'll be much calmer.

They are puppies but they are far from stupid, he will learn as much as you teach and stay consistent.

I was very nerve racked my first wk with Kato and found a lot of support on here as well as other forums and that has made a world of difference.

Pick and choose the advice given based on what makes you feel most comfortable as to how you want to train them, but keep an open mind to anyone willing to give you advice, not everyone on these dog forums use the same training methods or even agree with each other on training methods so use your better judgement and what you're most comfortable with and you'll be just fine. 

(:

mfrrpop's picture
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Joined: 2014-08-02

our 7 moth old luna jumps, scratches and bites ....youre saying this is normal? we thought she was being aggressive becuse of all the bruises she left!

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