Meet General Eisenhower aka "Ike"

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OmegaWolf's picture
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All right, here's my brag post!  ;D

We became the proud owners of a beautiful male puppy yesterday.  We drove to Portland, OR - a four+ hour drive - and spent a good hour in the backyard with all the puppies, the sire, the dam, and young dogs from the swame parents.  This breeder was very detail-oriented and spent a great deal of time with us explaining the papers, the lineage, and health.  So far we are quite pleased with the experience.

Ike is taking his transition very well, handling the noise of a house with children, another dog, and two cats.  He has learned the "here" command pretty well for the first day.  He follows me everywhere, and I'm trying to get him to bond with the other family members.  My wife is having some success.  The children, however, need to learn the appropriate respect (e.g. don't crowd him!  Puppies are babies, let him sleep!  etc.) to win the dog's companionship.

He is very loyal and devoted, as one would expect.  He's asleep next to me as I type this, a sweetheart.  His sire, whom we met yesterday, is also very loving and docile.  (The dam was a bit uppity due to a spat that injured her ear a couple weeks back, so we did not interact much with her.)

He is clearly "my dog" right now after one day, and might well remain so, but much of this may be attributable to the need for a pack leader through the mild trauma of having been adopted away from his old family.

We are seeing both the good and the bad: he smells nice, is a pleasure to pet as he sheds very little so far, stays with people and is therefore easy to supervise, he likes shoes, does make loud whining and howling noises left alone in his kennel, and does use his teeth A LOT incl. when playing.  All of these things we know before getting our Ike, and happily accept.

The ears are not taped at the moment because they need a breather due to a problem with the tape, an honest mistake by the vet that did them.  They will be taped/posted again tomorrow.

This boy loves to eat!  Trying to find the correct amount of food to use and feed him a little at a time as he wolfs down his food.

I realize this is a somewhat loquacious post for only having had the dog one day, but I have taken quite an affection to Ike as a welcomed new companion, and to this breed.

What is going on with the ears and the tape? Some dogs have allergic reactions to different tape. If you need suggestions on different methods of taping please let me know. Some methods used hardly use any tape.

Congrats on your new child, have fun with him! It will be an awesome experience for the whole family.

OmegaWolf's picture
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Thanks RND!  ;)

Yes, the tape the vet used was just too sticky.  I'm told the vet was very apologetic and that it they simply used the wrong tape by mistake.  The breeder had to remove it through much effort using mineral oil, and Ike had to have a stitch replaced.

We get to tape the ears for the first time tomorrow.  I cleaned his ears today.  Most of the bleeding was gone (there was a small amount of residual bleeding from one scab) and I swabbed it with rubbing alcohol to help it, and then gently massaged the ears.  Hope I did it right!  Ike was very good the whole time.

Q Tip's picture
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Joined: 2009-03-22

Pet Profiles

:) He's lovely and looks like he is going to be very tall :)

rgreen4's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-26

The ears are starting to stand nicely. The most difficult part is to not get a crease in the lower area of the ear. I do not see any. The upper part of the ear can easily be trained up as long as it has a good base.

He looks like he's got a good start, and a loving home. He is definitely a good looking boy.

And, yes, they like to use their teeth. When Red was a puppy, he did not have another dog willing to play with him, so I got the teeth. Fortunately, with Princess, she has Red and he really puts up with a lot from her. Of course they play hard and Red sometimes forgets to hold back and I hear a little yelp from her, look over and she has pulled back. She then looks at him and charges right back in.

It's funny, I got Princess because I thought I was going to lose Red in a short period, but I was wrong and she has turned out to be his salvation in a way. He has a tyroid condition and by the time it was properly diagnosed, his weight was 148 pounds. That was the day the doc told me that I really had to cut back his food. When I told him I was only feeding him 3 cups a day, he knew something was wrong. He is on medication, and I have gradually increased his food intake. He now gets 6 cups a day, 3 cups each in two feedings and Friday when I dropped him and the others off at the vet's he weighed 118.6 and has more energy than in years. She runs around with him and wears him out - it's great for both of them.

I was away for the weekend and they were boarded with the vet. The house is eerily silent as I won't pick them up until this afternoon.

While all puppies are endearing and a pleasure, once you've had a Doberman, all the rest are mere dogs.

The nice thing about his crop is it is short and will stand quickly. I wouldn't put rubbing alcohol on any open wound area, as with any wound it stings like heck. You can use peroxide and antibiotic creme if need be. Are his stitches still in, did the breeder show you how to tape his ears? Even if you are using the post method you still do not need to tape the entire ear. Also, when you go to unwrap which should be in about 7 days soak the tape first with something such as the mineral oil, baby oil, or adhesive remover I think there is nothing worse then people who rip the tapes off with all the hair attached and wonder why there dog has open soars and scabs on his ears. I cant tell you how many breeders actually do this and I still wonder why. The adhesive remover takes off everything and is so much easier on the dog.

rgreen4's picture
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Be Prepared - The "General" just might take command of the house. It looks as if he has a good start at it.

I agree with RnD, although I have never used the adhesive remover (through ignorance, as I was afraid to use it for fear of the petroleum burning the dogs skin), but have always used a sparing amount of tape, just two narrow bands around the ear. I use the reverse wrap when I make the posts which sticks to the inside of the ear which for a while after surgery does not have much hair. (The vet shaves the ears inside and out).

I also agree with rgreen in you should keep the ear clipped inside and do the reverse tape wrap. You should only have to use 3 pieces of tape to hold in place. One on the base one in the middle and one on the tip. Be careful not to wrap to tight and make sure you are stretching the ears up and holding them in place with the reversed tape wrapped post before taping the outside. Does the puppy still have stitches in his ears? This will determine what type of wrapping is right for him.

OmegaWolf's picture
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rgreen4 wrote:

Be Prepared - The "General" just might take command of the house. It looks as if he has a good start at it.

LOL! :D  He's allowed on the bed if we're just resting, as long as he knows he sleeps through the night in his kennel.  He loves to snuggle.

Thanks for all the excellent advice on the ear posting!  We get to do this this evening when I get home, if my wife doesn't try to do it.

rgreen4's picture
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RnD brought up a very important point. I have done so many I sometime forget the little things. The pressure of the bottom and middle band should only be tight enough to give the ear a little curl. You don't need to press the tape loop to the inside of the ear, the stickyness of the upper section of the post and the piece of tape over the top will do most of the work. The two bands are to gently keep the ear in place on the post. Too tight and you can cut off the circulation in the ear.

OmegaWolf's picture
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Clearly you are using adhesive tape.

Ike's stitches aren't out yet, and he's taking antibiotics for it.  This evenings two failed attempts caused a little bit of bleeding at the tip of one ear, poor fellow :(

I'm using the wrong tape - self-adhesive blue stretchy stuff w/o any bonding agent as we could not find any at the pet store.  He quickly shook himself out of this.  I was trying to be gentle and not cut off circulation, as the two of you have advised.

Will try again tomorrow.  I hope a couple days without the posting won't make that much of a difference.  During this time, he will get used to the cone we put around his head when we thought were done.

rgreen4's picture
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Yes I am use standard Johnson & Johnson 1/2" adhesive tape on the post and on the support bands.

But, you say he still has stitches and the edges are not healed. If that is the case, do not post yet. Instead put a cone back on his head.

Get a styrofoam cup large enough to support the length of his ears. Using wide (1") tape either the plastic, paper or adhesive, tape the openening shut. This is to provide a base for support on his head. The using an elasticized adhesive tape, tape the cone to his head between the ears in a position that the front (uncut) portion of the ear edge is approximately in the center of the cone. Then tape the uncut edge to the cone with the wide tape going from the bottom almost to the top of the ear so that the cut edge with the stitches is NOT taped.

Here is the only photo I have of Princess as a "conehead". This is the first time my vet has done this on one of mine, but it has been 6 years since I have had one done. It serves to protect the ear and prevent the possibility of a "crease" occuring in the ear. If that happens the ear likely won't stand properly. Following the "conehead" photo is one of an ear with a crease. Princess has a dirty muzzle because she was in the middle of her dinner. Red's ear got a crease and we could never do anything about it. I refused to go the implant route, because I love him anyway as he is a big friendly lovable lunk.

When were his ears cropped? You DO NOT want to tape over stitches. What did your breeder recommend for you to do with them? I'm going to try and not say anything to negative about the breeder but this shouldn't have happened. For one Puppies should not go to homes that have never had Dobermans and wrapped ears until stitches are out. I'm going to post a pictures of how my puppies are done until the stitches are taken out. This allows the edges to breath heal faster and makes it easier for wrapping when you take the stitches out. I see why you were using the stretchy stuff w/o bonding agent, you definitely do not want regular tape on it. I think if the vet that used regular tape he was a complete idiot! I'm telling you just because someone says they are a breeder or vet does not make them an expert. We see problems all the time from both!

What we do with the puppies is take regular styrophone cups stack as many as it takes to fit the length of the ear. They are placed on top of the puppies head, where the ears are located on each side a little half moon shape is cut out so it fits the side of the head and the puppy wears it comfortably. Then you take Zonus tape by Johnson and Johnson and wrap the entire cup in it. Shave the outer part of the ear as well as the inside. Buy the surgical adhesive glue and remover, You glue the outside of the pups ears and put some on the tape as well where it will stick to the side. You pull gently but firmly up on the ear sticking it to the side of the cup, repeat on the other side. Then a small strip is glued on the inside being careful not to cover stitches or the tips, this will attach to the cup also. I have a difficult time describing things but maybe you will have an idea. I would also contact the breeder and see how she cares for hers. If she suggests wrapping over stitches I wouldn't listen any longer.

Here is another picture the one rgreen sent in shows it a little clearer, the only thing I would say about his picture is if you glue the ear to the cup you don't have to worry about the piece that is going under the dogs chin.

rgreen4's picture
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That is true. Princess is the first I had with this method, and when I removed it, I did study it. I can see that you have to stack the cups, but Ike like Princess should only need one as they don't have the extra long show cut.

Now, Ike won't be thrilled with his cone, and he will try to shake it off. He may even try to scratch, but as long as he does not scratch the cut edge of the ear, it will be okay. Just keep an eye on him. Some put the puppies in an e-collar at this point, but if you keep an eye on him and if it not too bad he should be okay without it.

I also wanted to mention with the picture of Paris in a cup you ARE seeing duck tape this is for stability of the cup. It is however not under the part the ears are taped to this would just be the Zonus tape.

I agree with rgreen that you will probably only use 1 cup as Ikes ears are cropped very short. Make sure if you use this method that you are firmly pulling up so you don't get a pocket. I've never had problems with a litter from bugging the ears to much that I've had to use the e-collar. If you are gone and no one is there to watch him I would use one. My puppies are taught not to scratch them and learn very quick. Not only have we had single dogs cropped but entire litters and have never had a problem maybe we have just been lucky.

whoops it should be duct tape, to early and not enough coffee ;D

OmegaWolf's picture
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rnddobermans wrote:

When were his ears cropped? You DO NOT want to tape over stitches. What did your breeder recommend for you to do with them? I'm going to try and not say anything to negative about the breeder but this shouldn't have happened. For one Puppies should not go to homes that have never had Dobermans and wrapped ears until stitches are out. I'm going to post a pictures of how my puppies are done until the stitches are taken out. This allows the edges to breath heal faster and makes it easier for wrapping when you take the stitches out. I see why you were using the stretchy stuff w/o bonding agent, you definitely do not want regular tape on it. I think if the vet that used regular tape he was a complete idiot! I'm telling you just because someone says they are a breeder or vet does not make them an expert. We see problems all the time from both!

No, in defense of the breeder she did not say this.  She gave me some Dr. Scholl's traced to the ear pattern and suggested putting a bonding agent on it.  Those did not stay in the ear however due to lack of a bonding agent.

Yes, we agree the vet was foolish to use the tape.

I did put some tape on it this morning, but it has almost no tack to it.  We'll just have to be really careful taking it off.  My mistake.

Alternatively we could try to obtain a bonding agent and stay with the Dr. Scholl's.  Any suggestions appreciated!

Most of the instruction available on this topic applies to ears where the stitches are out, which is not the case yet for Ike.

OmegaWolf's picture
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rnddobermans wrote:

Here is another picture the one rgreen sent in shows it a little clearer, the only thing I would say about his picture is if you glue the ear to the cup you don't have to worry about the piece that is going under the dogs chin.

A picture's worth a thousand words.  This is excellent!  Thanks for the description, too!

the molefoam would also work not as sturdy as you may need, but if you use this method you are going to HAVE to use a bonding agent like skin bond. I bought mine at Wallgreens I think it's been a while. Let me see if I can get the photos of using this method or the link for you to visualize. This method is something typically used later as it doesn't provide the support needed in the beginning but might be a good alternative until the stitches are out and healed. Any pharmacy type place should carry it.

rgreen4's picture
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Another thing. It does not have to be a thing of beauty. It is a temporary functional tool to keep the ears upright in the early stages. Once the stitches are out and the edges healed with the scabs off (approx. 10 days or less), then we can go to the posts.

I'm going to provide a few links that give pictorials for posting and different issues that may be fixed through different methods of taping and posting. You  may or may not need it, good info to have for the future.
http://www.dpca.org/BreedEd/PDF/Auch_Ear_Taping.pdf
http://misteldobermans.com/earwrapping.htm
http://www.niklbydobermans.com/Ear%20Posting.htm
http://bakaridobes.westhost.com/postingears
http://www.dpca.org/BreedEd/ears12.htm
http://www.dpca.org/BreedEd/ears5-8.htm

I couldn't find the one I was looking for but will try later.

I don't know what the breeder told you as far as taking care of the suture area. Here is what we do to take care of the ear. Some people use a special powder on the ear which helps to dry the stitched area for the first couple of days. I use triple antibiotic creme and apply it to on the edges a couple times per day until the stitches are removed. This really helps to heal quickly.

eileennellie's picture
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I just wanted to say that I think your username is cute! (Not as cute as that puppy, though!)

OmegaWolf's picture
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No indeed!  All puppies are pretty dang cute! :D

The username is an old family joke, actually, invented by my mother who called herself exactly that.  The dogs we had always got so excited to see her and became her entourage.

OmegaWolf's picture
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rnddobermans wrote:

I don't know what the breeder told you as far as taking care of the suture area. Here is what we do to take care of the ear. Some people use a special powder on the ear which helps to dry the stitched area for the first couple of days. I use triple antibiotic creme and apply it to on the edges a couple times per day until the stitches are removed. This really helps to heal quickly.

To her credit, I think she did.  It's just difficult to absorb everything verbally during one two-hour visit on an exciting occasion.  She included plenty of written materials too amongs the pedigree and AKC registration, incl. an article on posting ears, just not on what to do on that first week before the stitches come out.  In fact, she just called for follow-up and mentioned she is going to put one together.

Do you happen to remember what that powder is, BTW?

This is why she shouldn't have let a puppy go home in stitches to a home that has never posted or dealt with the aftercare of the sutures. It is not your fault but a lack of judgment on her part. No offense you mentioned many things that she has done but for an experienced breeder this would be a big no no. If she would have given you a name of a  person in your area to help you that would be one thing.

I believe the powder was gold bond but I think it would be best to use the antibiotic creme and keep them dry. You would probably be best if you don't feel comfortable with the wrapping that rgreen an I suggested and provided pictures of then purchasing the bonding agent "skin bond" and gluing the molefoam in like she told you to do. You do not want to leave the ears down.

OmegaWolf's picture
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That's why I'm so appreciative of you guys!  :) :D

I've read half of the links you posted earlier, will read them all.

Thanks for all the excellent, detailed advice!

OmegaWolf's picture
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My wife doesn't like him.  Now, she's kind of a homebody and not an outdoors person.  I earn the money and pay the bills, and I say the dog stays! :D  Actually, that was never even a consideration.  I continually remind her we have to put up with the puppy phase for awhile, but after that, it WILL be worth it.

We're going to have a private lesson with a trainer (my wife and I, and Ike), some socializaition on Saturdays, and then hopefully begin our puppy classes.  She is finally having a class on a day of the week where I'm not driving from my work 60 miles away.

I'm sorry to hear your wife doesn't like Ike. Perhaps the training will help. I do hope she will be able to attend also. They are young for a short time although males seem to take longer to mature. They go through teenage stage longer then females. When he is trained he will be the best dog ever. Some of what she may not like about him could possibly be worked out through the training and puppy classes. They are capable of doing things at a much younger age then most dogs. Paris passed her CGC at 6mo old with flying colors.