Looking for a show quality puppy

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Sorceress_Mage's picture
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Joined: 2009-08-16

I am in the process of saving my money for a show quality puppy.  I am also saving money to fence the back yard in completely right to the back door.  I will do the fence first before looking for a pup.  I am quitting smoking and using that money (about $100 a week). 

All that being said and done, what I am really looking for is a great breeder who will seriously consider selling a show quality puppy to someone who wants to show, as well as have a loving pet.  I have done just a little bit of showing in the past; however, my bitch developed a bad bite and I spayed her and loved her all the same.  I am really serious about showing and hope to find a breeder close to home (N.Y.) with whom I can also use as a mentor for showing the puppy I plan to get.  I have other pets at home--cats.  Some of them are used to dogs and got along quite well with my roommate's old dog (presently deceased).

So if anyone could help, I would appreciate it.

First off, you need to go to shows in your area. Hang around the Doberman ring and ask questions. Beware of your backyard breeder whom may claim to have show dogs but doesn't have anything to back the talk up. Many people claim that their dogs can PRODUCE show puppies that is far from the truth. Some claim big show careers in other countries when in fact if that was even true that same dog would not be able to compete in the American ring. Different looking dogs, it is very important where you get the dog. The proof is in the pedigree and what the actual breeder is doing and producing. Just because a breeder has a FEW champions in the pedigree doesn't mean a thing, that pedigree should be jam packed with Champions. Look up on the DPCA website they have a mentor section on there excellent way to start, also look under the breeder referral section in your state and states surrounding it. They may know of reputable people in your area that are not listed under breeder referral. Good luck with your search, let us know how it goes.

http://www.rnddobermans.net

Sorceress_Mage's picture
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Joined: 2009-08-16

I'm sorry it took me so long to reply.  At the present time I have too many fingers in too many pots.  This quitting of smoking is turning out to be a difficult task and somehow I manage to hold on by saying this mantra every time I want a cigarette:  "Do you really want this or do you want the dobe?"  So far the dobe is winning. 

I am in the process of researching some breeders in the N.Y. area now.  A few years back there was a Westminster show in which I was enamored of the bitch Serenghetti, and therefore, I wanted a bitch back then like her and decided to look at who and what produced her.  I know my search had led me to a breeder that was planning an extraordinary breeding that would have taken place way before my getting my degree.  It had me drooling.  They were planning a breeding with some Marianburg frozen sperm.  I can't remember the dog's name, but at the time knew it for a major winner and beautiful speciman of a dobe.  I remember having liked talking with this breeder and thought I remembered that they were here in NY somewhere, mistakenly thinking they were in Spring Valley.  I took out the old catalogue of the book from that Westminster show and am trying to create that same process I must have used to have located them.  I have several handwritten phone numbers in it besides the numbers that the book itself provides.  I have started with a few, but I could not find one that was working any more. 

I am, however, going to follow your suggestion (thank you, of course) of going to the local shows.  I found a site online that shows where the dogshows are located and the dates.  The only reason I stopped going to shows was that I knew I was not in a position to yet own a dog and seeing what I desperately wanted and could not get just yet was getting to be a bit painful.  But now I see an end in sight and going around to the shows will once again be fun now that I am working on my dream of owning a show pup.

Wow, Serenghetti otherwise known as Sera bred by Judy Donier of Toledobes. That was a REALLY LONG TIME AGO! Her sire was Ch Lancasters Courvosier V Trump. He is also in my dogs pedigree. Sera was a beautiful bitch. I wouldn't limit your buying a dog from the New York area. Keep in mind if you are wanting a good dog that all good things come to those that wait. Not an easy thing to do but when you are committed to buying a show dog then this is the best thing I can advise. Way to many people settle for less or from breeders who claim to have show quality but cant back it up. Keep looking and do look for a mentor to help you.

rgreen4's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-26

I hope you are showing your dog and hopefully finishing the championship. Many breeders with dogs at that level put it in their contract that the dog must be shown. After all, they was their line to continue, and if they have a good number of pups that are later shown and finish, it makes their dog look better. It's not just the ribbons their dog wins, but as the offspring start showing well, it adds to the reputation of their line.

Sorceress_Mage's picture
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Joined: 2009-08-16

Hello RGreen:

I've read quite a few of your posts and respect your opinion.  However, I am not sure from your answer if you know I don't own a dog just yet--in fact it looks like 1 1/2 years to 2 years down the line before I bring home a pup.  Maybe it was just that you typed a fast answer and the grammar slipped.  (Lol, sorry, forever the English teacher, I guess.)

Although I am a novice, I've done quite a bit of reading and have had several friends in the business of showing dogs.  Moreover, I was briefly in a foster home in Wisconsin which was a kennel called Afghans of Kadine, owned by my foster mother, Carol Radmann.  In fact, my cousin in Illinois showed a collie and I believe she is also a novice even though she talks like she knows it all (God knows I just love her).  And, at the time when I was showing my young bitch, Tara, at a puppy match around 1978 (turned out not to be a show quality pup because she developed a bad bite about five months later, even though she won 2nd place in the match--which also was the first time I trotted around a ring), I became a member of the Galveston Kennel Club for about a year but then moved away. 

So, I guess you can see I am not totally naiive--however, I do mean it when I say I am a novice.  I have been in the ring a total of 2 times only.  I never had any handler training.  I just copied what I saw everyone else in the ring doing.  I picked up a trick from a breeder about how to train my dog so I could stack her by stacking her on an ironing board at first a couple of times.  I don't know how I well I showed my dog.  At the puppy match, she was having a problem with her ears as I had to remove the tape that day so I don't know if she could have gotten first with my handling if her ears would have stayed erect.  However, I am quite intelligent and believe I could learn it easily if it is not already a talent I already possess.  I do believe I have a good eye for our breed and like to pit myself against the judges when I am at shows to see if we agree--lol.  And most of the time, I agree with them.

I am now 55 years old and have been having this dream of owning a show dog for over 30 years, but was never in a position to own one.  I guess living in a city apartment is not a good place for a doberman and I would never put one through that.  I was working my way through college part-time, working full time at the college--no time for a dog then, even if I had a place for it.  But now I am in a long-term relationship for over 15 years and the house is owned and has a decent sized back yard.  I live near the beach.  I am no longer putting in long hours teaching.  I quit and am now working a 9 to 5 job as an administrative assistant in a college.  I believe that now is the time it should happen while I am still young enough to enjoy it and while my partner is still young enough to walk her when I am at work.  I believe I am mature enough to commit to showing the dog.  And it is my dream to make her a finished champion.  I do, however, want to handle her myself as much as possible.  I guess if she was to go to Westminster one day, I would hire a handler.  LOL  I would be too nervous to show her there.

So you can see I am serious about showing and know I should seek help such as a nearby breeder as a mentor.  I want to learn more about bloodlines and breeding.  I want to go to a handling class--but have to wait for my pup.  You need a dog to go. 

In addition to conformation, I want to obedience train my dog and maybe compete in that area also and see where it leads us.  I would also like to join a kennel club again.

I am sorry if I sound a bit defensive; however, I just wanted you to know that I am serious and do know a little.  I think that this information would be useful to anyone who wants to give me advice to know I am a mature, intelligent woman and not a young adult wanting her first dog.

Green, I am glad you answered me and look forward to many conversations.

rgreen4's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-26

I should have said planning on showing and finishing. You did say you were looking. And you have confirmed you are planning on showing. Certainly others on here can give you better information on showing dogs, the commitment and cost than I can. I was just trying to prepare you for the fact that for the most part, breeders of show dogs want to ensure that their quality pups will be shown. Some who simply want a pet that is very good looking want a "show" dog, but the breeder does not want a prime candidate for the show ring to wind up as a pet.

One place to start looking is to do as RND posted. To find the prime show puppies, you need to really talk to the show people. Good luck on your search. And please, let us know how it turns out. I for one applaud you for taking action to realize your dream.

One thing that I would like to add is the Doberman ring is the hardest to finish a dog (males are much easier to finish then the females). Other breeds that are in the same category would be the Golden Retriever. The Doberman ring is a ring that is filled with money and the rich to back them. It is EXTREMELY RARE for a novice owner handler to be able to COMPETE in this ring let alone finish a dog. This show ring is filled with professional handlers and many of them that just specialize in the Doberman ring. The Doberman is a short coated breed that everything shows. Long haired dogs you can hide much more than the Doberman that everything is right out their for all to see.  The bitch you mentioned seeing before at Westminster (Sera) was specialed by a professional handler Andy Linton, he is one of the best and frequents even the smallest shows. It is all about winning the breed and groups. They are backed by the rich and famous lol. So even though a person may have limited experience in showing other breeds doesn't mean that they will be trusted to be sold a top quality or even mediocre specimen with the Dobe breeders. Like I said earlier it is so RARE for Owner Handlers to have success in the Doberman ring and your quality breeders realize this and do not want to take the chance on novice handlers. This would be one reason that finding a mentor off of the DPCA website or hanging around the local shows and proving yourself would be beneficial. I for one LOVE your dream as I'm living out my own dreams in the Doberman world right now. If you really want this don't give up, just know that it will be a tough road ahead. A good mentor will help you through all of this. I've learned many things the hard way and know that by having a good mentor from the beginning can be so beneficial. I wish you the best of luck please keep us posted on what you decide to do. If you PM me I can share another site that might be able to help you a little more on your journey.

glengate's picture
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Joined: 2009-07-22

Sorceress_Mage wrote:

So you can see I am serious about showing and know I should seek help such as a nearby breeder as a mentor.  I want to learn more about bloodlines and breeding.  I want to go to a handling class--but have to wait for my pup.  You need a dog to go. 

I would suggest subscribing to the 2 Doberman publications, Doberman Digest (monthly) and The Doberman Pinscher Magazine (bi-monthly).  They both have websites which I assume would turn up by googling. 

Study the pictures, and start to get a feel for who is producing the type of dogs that appeal to you.  Also spend time on our on-line site Dobequest http://www.dobequest.org studying the bloodlines you see in the magazines. 

I would also suggest spending a lot of time on this resource
http://www.dpca.org/BreedEd/buying.htm
learning about the various health and temperament tests that responsible breeders use in addition to conformation and performance competitions to evaluate breeding merits.  Ideally, you want to find a breeder that is doing as much as possible to ensure good conformation, stable temperaments, healthy, long-lived Dobermans who can perform the tasks you wish to pursue.  Actually, I'd spend a lot of time on the various pages at the DPCA website, especially in the Education section.  The DPCA website has a list of chapter clubs across the country.  If there is one in your general area, join it.  You'll meet other Doberman fanciers there, perhaps breeders, and start networking with them.  You can certainly attend club meetings and functions without a Doberman. 

It really takes an investment of time (and money) on your part to find the right breeder for you. 

Sorceress_Mage's picture
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Joined: 2009-08-16

I just want to thank everyone for their replies and advice.  Although I was first disheartened by mddobermans' reply, I only got confirmation of what I thought might happen in my search.  However, I am not going to give up and will follow her advice, as well as Glengate's--which I have already started doing.

I went to the AKC site to look for shows in the NY area.  There aren't so many that are for all breeds.  I did, however, find one in the Spring Valley area--and guess what--it is a doberman specialty show.  It is on the 25th of October--I can't wait to go.  Hurrah!!!

NY has two DPCA clubs.  :-\  But one is about a 45 minute to 1 hour drive depending upon the traffice since I would have to cross Manhattan go get there.  I live near the beach in Queens, right near the five towns area in Long Island.  There is a DPCA club on the island.  I do not know where they are located.  I emailed the president of the club--but have not had an answer yet.  I will try another member that was listed if I don't hear back in about 2 more days.  Preferably I could travel there because there is the Long Island Railroad with which I am familiar.  Right now, my better half is hogging up the usage of the car. 

And again I want to thank everyone who responded to my pleas!! lol  I know I will be posting often.  I just have soooo many questions!

Sorceress_Mage wrote:

I just want to thank everyone for their replies and advice.  Although I was first disheartened by mddobermans' reply, I only got confirmation of what I thought might happen in my search.  However, I am not going to give up and will follow her advice, as well as Glengate's--which I have already started doing.

I went to the AKC site to look for shows in the NY area.  There aren't so many that are for all breeds.  I did, however, find one in the Spring Valley area--and guess what--it is a doberman specialty show.  It is on the 25th of October--I can't wait to go.  Hurrah!!!

NY has two DPCA clubs.  :-\  But one is about a 45 minute to 1 hour drive depending upon the traffice since I would have to cross Manhattan go get there.  I live near the beach in Queens, right near the five towns area in Long Island.  There is a DPCA club on the island.  I do not know where they are located.  I emailed the president of the club--but have not had an answer yet.  I will try another member that was listed if I don't hear back in about 2 more days.  Preferably I could travel there because there is the Long Island Railroad with which I am familiar.  Right now, my better half is hogging up the usage of the car. 

And again I want to thank everyone who responded to my pleas!! lol  I know I will be posting often.  I just have soooo many questions!

My advice to you was not to dishearten you but to give you the right places to turn. Do you know how many people just like yourself look to this dream and they quickly give it up because they started in the wrong place and were looking for the wrong thing. Education and mentorship will prevent a lot of heartache, I'm speaking from experience and the mistakes I've made throughout my showing. The DPCA website is a wealth of knowledge from respected trainers, breeders and handlers within the Doberman community.

It sounds as if you have already done a great deal of research and the specialty will be a FABULOUS show to watch! They should have good quality Dobermans there. What I would also suggest is hooking up with someone before that show so you may learn a little more while watching. Have you checked out the mentor page on the DPCA website yet? If you would like to PM me I can give you the name of another list that is filled with show breeders, and handlers that you will be able to get more info from, I'm sure you will be able to find someone from the list that will be going to the show. This particular list that you are posting to right now is mostly filled with pet owners. They do not have the experience of showing so you are not going to get the answers you need to move on with your dream. It is a good list for other things but asking for show advice and picking a conformation puppy is not one of them. I'm not saying that to be negative or hurt anyone on this list as many on here have great advice for other things and have long time experience with Dobermans.