Its illegal in my country to crop Dobermans ears and it sucks.

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dobermanbuddy's picture
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Joined: 2009-02-07

I live in New Zealand and it is illegal to crop dogs ears. it is consider animal cruelty.. (which is weird because we are still allowed to dock tails?). In a way I can see where people are coming from by making it illegal and how people make it worse by producing fighting dogs with cropped ears. But then it seems such a shame because the Doberman looks so beautiful with the ears cropped (Can even hear alot better and Ive heard it reduces ear infections?). I have been trying to find a way to have a Doberman with cropped ears but it seems impossible. Even thought of just taping the ears without the crop but no.. that would just look silly be cause their soo big and floppy haha. Importing would be my next option but then again its a pretty hard process if you've never done it before and quite costly.

Anyways, kinda just getting it off my chest and I suppose im looking for someone on here to tell me to "give in and its not gonna happen" or to give me a good option as to how I can give my new puppy in July the crop that makes him look like the mean looking yet gentle doberman.

Thanks for reading  :)

rgreen4's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-26

I don't know if there is a way or not. Apparently only the America's (except for Canada) still allow cropping, and I don't know if NZ would look fondly on taking him out of the country for a crop. Then of course there is the expense.

There are a lot of Dobies on this forum that still have the floppy ear, and one of your countrymen have a beautiful red male named Q. It's ironic that those who say that putting the dog though the pain of cropping and risk of anesthesia will put the same dog though the pain of spaying/neutering and the same risk of anesthesia. They will even advocate the risk of anesthesia on an annual basis to clean their teeth.

On the other side, the crop must be done by someone who knows what they are doing and must be done at the proper time or they will not stand.

miissyp's picture
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Joined: 2010-04-20

Hi, I'm a newbie to this forum.. but I also wanted to add that it is also illegal here in Aust as well. Apparently its been banned here for 10yrs, I sometimes see the odd dobe with its ears cropped and tail docked as that's illegal here too.

I too agree that the cropped ears make the dobe really stand out and it's so beautiful. I've ask some breeders here how they have some of their dobes ears cropped or tail docked. But they've always replied with that they've imported them. Shame  :(

However, I have been told by a breeder that they think the only place left that they know what still legalized ear cropping was WA. But who knows if that's changed.

:)

Lady Kate's picture
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Joined: 2009-10-28

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I might be in the minority here... Sofia came to us cropped and docked and is truly a stunning girl.. However.. she is also the sweetest most gentle creature this side of Bambi, but most people (and small horses) are afraid of her as she does look fierce with the cropped look.
I like the natural look for dobies as it really presents their softer side.
Anyway: cropped, docked, floppy, red, fawn, black and tan.. They are amazing dogs and I love them all.
I'm sure there's a strong opinion for showing dobermans ( some one tell me please.. is it dobermen????) as it's been the standard for years and I'm wondering if the AKC will ever allow natural?
P.S. Why won't my Spell Check work?? I can never remember if it's 'i' after 'e' except after 'c' or what.

glengate's picture
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Joined: 2009-07-22

rgreen4 wrote:

Apparently only the America's (except for Canada) still allow cropping

Huh?  Most of Canada still allows cropping.  Only the Maritime provinces have banned it, and the ban hasn't taken effect yet in some of them. 

glengate's picture
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Lady Kate wrote:

I'm wondering if the AKC will ever allow natural?

The AKC does allow natural.  You just better have a damned good one if you expect to win.  As it is, cropped ears are considered a fault and just like any other fault, it will be weighed accordingly in the ring.  There have only been 4 uncropped AKC champion Dobermans.  There are others that are pointed. 

Undocked tails have not been seen in the AKC ring to my knowledge.  I know that some judges have said they would dismiss a dog with an undocked tail.  Others would probably fault it heavily. 

rgreen4's picture
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Miissyp - how are you using the abbreviation WA? Over here, that would indicate the state of Washington. In the U.S., cropping is accepted in all 50 states. There are some in the U.S. who would like to change that, however.

Glengate - thanks for the correction on Canadian rules.

Lady Kate - there are instructions on how to hold up the ears of an uncropped Dobie in the ring to minimize the visual difference when standing in the ring. They do suffer a disadvantage when compared to a good long cut. In my opinion, the cuts seem to have gotten longer over the years.

miissyp's picture
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Joined: 2010-04-20

Hi rgreen4 sorry what i meant to say was Western Australia - WA

Rednailz's picture
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Joined: 2008-07-16

doberman buddy - You mentioned a number of reasons why people prefer cropped ears, and asked about ear infections.  I absolutely agree that the cropped ear, when done properly,  makes a Dobe even more beautiful.  And I agree with your comment that a crop makes a dog "mean looking."  However, the uncropped ear doesn't change the fact that it's a Dobe.  Size, or even just attitude, can make a dog intimidating.  My boys are almost 2 and both have floppy ears because I didn't see a good reason to crop (they aren't show dogs or working guard dogs).  Their hearing is great (selective at times, but that's another matter) and there have been no ear infections. 

Christine1992's picture
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Joined: 2010-04-19

Eugh, totally sympathize with you there dobermanbuddy..
I live in Switzerland and it is 100% illegal to have a dog with a docked tail or cropped ears, even bringing a docked/cropped dog into the country for a temporary stay is an entire procedure. I bought my Dobie from France, so his tail is docked but his ears are natural (ear cropping is forbidden in almost every country in the EU..select few allow tail docking, such as France). Just to get him into Switzerland I have to keep him registered under my French friend's name.
I too searched for every and any possible way..But there was none! I asked various veterinarians and even checked the Swiss national website concerning import/export of animals ..the only way would be if I bought a Doberman in a country where docking/cropping was allowed, and, wait for it...: if I was either a citizen of that country or resided in that country for more than 6 months. Oh, and even if I did manage to go to the US and buy a Doberman with cropped ears (I have a US passport), I would still have to prove that I lived in the US for +6 months. It is basically impossible. I read a post a while back on this section of the forum that it is ridiculous to ban ear-cropping yet allow neutering/spaying - I think because one of the reasons for the ban was that it is a procedure done under general anesthetic and is thus 'dangerous'.
I read on another forum a woman who attempted to bring a Doberman with cropped ears and a docked tail that she adopted from a rescue shelter in Hungary..and she ended up having to sign a statement agreeing that she had "abused" the animal, despite not having been responsible for the dog's cropped ears/docked tail!
Sorry for the rant but it just annoys me..it's ridiculous.

rgreen4's picture
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Christine1992 wrote:

I read a post a while back on this section of the forum that it is ridiculous to ban ear-cropping yet allow neutering/spaying - I think because one of the reasons for the ban was that it is a procedure done under general anesthetic and is thus 'dangerous'.

All major surgeries (neutering/spaying) as well as teeth cleaning is done under general anesthetic.

When those in charge want to limit what we can do, one excuse is as good as any other, whether it makes sense or not.

(Sorry for the rant).

AlphaAdmin's picture
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Our Dobermans are cropped, but some times I'm glad the practice is going extinct - just because people in general aren't committed to their dogs enough to do the procedure properly. The tail doc and dew claw removal though - it's almost inhumane NOT to. That long tail on a Dobe can get broken and the dews can get caught on things and tear open the skin. That's where all these practices come from, docking, cropping, and dew removal. It's to remove the fragile superfluous parts prone to injury or able to function as a handle to an attacker.

 

Antoinette's picture
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Im in Brisbane Australia and they cannot do it here as well, our first Doberman came from an older German Breeder who was so upset about it he wouldnt breed for sometime. I have had two Dobermans and both have had the tail and the floppy ears. Personally I love them I think they are the cutest things out but especially with the long floppy ears hanging around. However so many times with Rusty my first Doberman people in the street would stop to ask what he was and Im pretty sure it was having the tail and ears that were throwing people. Rustys tail was a big joke as it curled around like a circle ontop of his back, Snoopy my new baby wags his tail alot more than Rusty used to so it will be interesting to see what happens with his. I have heard people saying how the tails should go because they knock things off etc etc but this isnt true as Rusty was very large boy who lived inside and we never had a problem with his tail and believe me he could be very boisterous and charge around the place like a madman. Either way I think when it comes down to it they are still Dobermans and I think with or without tails / ears they are loved for their special personalities not how they look. My Snoopy looks like a right dork with his big floppy ears but wherever we go people are always wanting to stop and play with him.

rgreen4's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-26

I find it interesting that the same people who claim that cropping ears and docking tails in cruel and cite the danger of putting a dog under anesthesia will turn right around and advocate spaying and neutering, either of which is more intrusives to the body of the dog. If cropping and docking is cruel then so is neutering and spaying. In My Humble Opinion.

Just for the record, I feel either is up to the owner of the dog, not Big Brother.

jerial13's picture
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RGreen,

You and I are definately on the same page.  I am sure that you remember when I had Shelbi fixed and they cut her tail shorter.  I asked the vet if he thought more anesthesia would be necessary for the tail to be shortened, and he said no that he would use the same amount.  I agree that there is no difference between putting them to sleep for one procedure or another, as long as they receive the correct amount for their size.  Asleep is asleep last time I checked.

J

rgreen4's picture
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I have a friend who is a retired AF Med Tech and Navy Corpsman. He reminded me once when I was having a major surgery, that we don't pay the anesthesiologist to put us to sleep, we pay them to wake us up.

Dogs are routinely anesthetized for annual teeth cleaning and some other routine procedures as well as surgery. Yes, it is dangerous if not done correctly. I never realized how important it really was to bring in a dog with an empty stomach in the morning of a procedure, not even water, until I had emergency surgery and the full impact was explained. There is a valve in our throat that closes when we eat or drink and opens when we breath since we use the same passage for both, but food or drink in the lungs (or stomach content) is very very bad. When we (or the dog) are under the effect of anesthethia, the valve is slow in reaction and we cannot protect ourselves if any of the stomach contents come up for any reason. A vet just refuses to do the surgery unless an emergency, in humans the same.

When I had mine the anesthesiologist explained he would wake me up before removing the tube from my throat, and when he saw my eyes come open he would yank (his word) the tube out. He said I would remember seeing it. He was right, I do, I don't remember anything else in that time frame, but I remember it flashing past my eyes. Once you are conscious, then your/their body takes over.

jeshykai's picture
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Glad that AlphaAdmin beat me too it... the main reason why I don't think docked tails and dewclaws will stop being done is because it saves so much headache, pain, etc later on if they end up breaking it, or getting the dews ripped off.  But these procedures are often done when they are still young, and it isn't quite bone yet, so since they don't have to use anesthesia maybe this is why some countries still allow it.

From my experience, the hardest thing with the cropped ears is the proper aftercare of it.  Unfortunately, people outlaw things for different reasons.. in CA in the states ferrets are illegal.. because they might break loose and wreck havoc in the neighborhood.  It is a law from the 1930's and it's silly but hey it's there...

I know you're frustrated and I know you want the look but you got a great dog out of it.  :)