Dobe pup and the Shiz tu's

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Jake's picture
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Joined: 2012-08-29

Our Dobe puppy Jake (9 weeks) was taken in immediately by one of our shiz tu's Bo who weighs 12 lbs.  Our other shiz tu doesn't totally trust the wild Jake yet.  so far they have taught him proper food and water bowl edicate.  Jake and Bo wrestle constantly.  We are getting a little concerned because Jake is already over 14 lbs and he doesn't know his own strength or the sharpness of those razor blade teeth of his.  At this point Bo seems to be able to keep him in check, I guess the question is will they stay buddy's as Jake grows or is there a real possibility he will hurt Bo?

talisin's picture
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Joined: 2011-02-25

It's my understanding that a doberman that is of the same sex as the other dog involved will eventually challenge his buddy and it can end very tragically. From what I have read around a year old the doberman male will begin this behavior but it could start at any time, that is why the dobe should be supervised around other dogs. Rgreen and DJ's Dad have several posts on this behavior and how they have had to handle it. It has been stated it's not IF the confrontation will happen but WHEN.....so since you have two little dogs I assume from the name of Bo that it's a male, be sure to read the posts on this behavior so your little dogs stay safe.....

Jake's picture
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Joined: 2012-08-29

Thank you for the info, it's appreciated.  We never leave them unsupervised, Jake, Bo and DJ are all males.  I will look for the posts by DJ's dad and Rgreen. 

Jake's picture
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Joined: 2012-08-29

Hi Talisin, I'm new to this site and I've been searching for posts about this by DJ's dad and Rgreen and I'm not having alot of luck.  Do you recall off hand what catagory  they may be under?

Lori's picture
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Joined: 2010-04-03

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I would suggest some simple Google searches on Same Sex agression in Doberman's and you'll have plenty to read.  A good breeder would have never sold you Male knowing you have 2 others.  Will it be an issue?  maybe... and maybe not but what is your plan if it is?  This won't show up until probably 1-1/2 -3 years and with the size difference might only happen once before the damage is done forever.

 

I would also stop the rough play now as they will soon be too different in size to play for a while.  doberman's are large, clumsy sometimes and like to play rough.  An 80+ lb dog jumping on your 14 lb Shiz tu will not be a good combo...Most use their paws like hands and grab or paw at stuff which could hurt a much smaller dog. 

 

This might sound more like a lecture than helpful advice but it is important for the safety and health of ALL your dogs to understand both of these things.   Good luck!

Jake's picture
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Joined: 2012-08-29

No worries, I did not take it as a lecture.  I asked for advice and I'm getting some.  Thanks.  Our dogs are never left unsupervised.  During the time they play they are watched even more closely.  I am very protective of all 3 of them and don't want any of them hurt.  They are all good natured, there has been no aggression shown.  Jake loves to be with them, he follows Bo and DJ everywhere.  We don't let the wrestling get out of hand.  I had a dobe "Susie" years ago, I had to put her down when she was 9 yrs old due to cancer.  So I am aware of how they play with their paws, the pawing and pouncing.  She would play with my friends cocker spaniel very nicely and they had not grown up together.  I know all dogs are not the same, and she was a female.  Both my males are nuetered and Jake will be as soon as he is of age.  I will continue to keep a close eye on them.  thanks agin.. :o)

Rocket mom's picture
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Joined: 2012-09-01

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Sounds like you are a concerned puppy parent, I have a male dobie and a female minpin, huge difference in size. They play together a lot, I did worry the dobie would accidentally step on the minpin but they seem to have figured it out. The minpin is pretty quick and is the dominant one, she puts a stop to it when she doesn't want to play any more. Good luck and keep up the good work.

Jake's picture
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Joined: 2012-08-29

Actually Bo has been doing that to when he's had enough he will run and jump up on the couch, but now Jake can get up far enough to yap at him as to say "Hey you, I wasn't finished playing yet."  Right now I have Jake in my lap, Bo beside me and DJ wrapped around the back of my neck (he thinks he's a fur stole).  They are all sleeping peacefully...

talisin's picture
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Joined: 2011-02-25

check this out:  http://www.gentledoberman.com/search/node/same%20sex%20aggression

if that doesn't work then click "SEARCH" at the very top of this page and type in the field that appears "Same sex aggression" and the topics will show up

Hope that helps :))

Lori's picture
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Joined: 2010-04-03

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It may never be an issue for you and that would be great but it won't happen until they are about 1-1/2 years or older.  Most people forget about it and think everything fine and then one day it can happen quickly especially if your older dog is the Alpha now, your larger dog may one day realize he could be in charge.

 

I have a male and he gets along fine with most males unless they are very dominate,  Submissive males are no issue with him.  knowing this, he doesn't go to dog parks and I'm more careful about what dogs he gets to play with.

DJ's Dad's picture
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Joined: 2010-10-04

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@Jake:  Funny, you have a Bo and a DJ, and so do I.  My Bo is a 7 lb rat terrier, and DJ is my 10 month old dobergirl.

About your boy Jake playing with your little guys--watch them carefully.  Dont assume that it's 'cute' to see the little one snarling and giving toothy warnings to your Jake....it's only cute till someone gets hurt.

I learned a very hard, heartbreaking lesson a few months ago with an extreme Alpha female doberman and a little terrier that ended up being so scared of her.  My alpha female (Ziva) formed such a strong hatred for the terrier over the period of two years, that she actually tried to kill the terrier on more than one occasion.  It was subtle signs that slowly built up, and I was so blinded by my love for Ziva that I just didnt see it coming on so hard.  NOW I know.  I dont allow DJ to play rough with any of my little dogs---EVER.  No tug of war games with toys, no chasing them through the yard, she has no choice but to respect them and give them plenty of room.  I absolutely insist on it.

I've always had multiple dogs, and always had dobermans and little dogs at the same time, and only this ONE time with Ziva and the terrier, did it not work out.  I just wasnt expecting her to end up that way, and it took me by total surprize.

Big dogs and little dogs CAN learn to live together peaceably...but it sometimes takes a lot of work on your part to get to that point.

Jake's picture
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Joined: 2012-08-29

First I'd like to say, I'm so sorry to hear about your experience.  That is a horrible thing to have to go through.  I've seen and read a lot of your posts and it's very obvious you love and are devoted to each and everyone of your animals (children as I like to call them).  As of yesterday morning Jake weighed in at 17 LBS.  He and Bo and very good together, Bo does not snarl or yap at him, they are actually quite quiet when they play.  When Jake shows signs of getting out of hand I stop him.  When I say getting out of hand I don't mean he is playing badly or being mean, he is a dobe and dobes use their paws alot and like to prance, paw and pounce which is all fine when playing with one of equal size.  Bo and Jake will even drink out of the same water bowl happily (they don't have to).  When Jake gets put in his crate at night, Bo will run it there with him.  It's kinda sad pulling Bo out, but they just don't realize it's NOT a good idea..  Jake cries, and Bo sits outside the crate.  DJ on the other hand (Mr. Grumpy Pants as I like to call him) has always been a people dog, as he had the crap seriously scared out of him by a sheppard as a puppy.  He didn't like Bo when we got him, but they ended up the best of buddy's.  I think he felt like Jake took his best friend away.  DJ does get repremanded for growling at Jake, and Jake is being taught not to annoy DJ...  It's a full time job!  I pray everything works, I'm one of those people that believes if you take an animal it's your responsibility to keep them forever and I get very attached, I love them all and it would break my heart to have to get rid of one of my babies.

Jake's picture
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Joined: 2012-08-29

BTW DJ's dad, is that a medium crop on DJ?  Her ears are beautiful.  I have an appointment for Jake out in London.