Question & good news : )

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cammie001's picture
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So I was wondering, what is the average age for a dog to go into heat for the first time?

Athena and I went on a walk today and when we got in the car i saw blood where she was sitting. I checked her paws and tummy and all over and I couldnt figure out where it was coming from..

Yes Athena got to go on her first walk yesterday and she did great! She did even better today and she REALLY enjoys it! Her behavior has gotten SO much better since she can get out of the house for a while. Each time when she gets back she drinks some water, plops down on the floor(not even making it to her bed) and is passed out within seconds! It is also helping us bond more which is making me so happy! I still won't take her in areas that has other dogs because it makes me nervous but the vet said she was good to go for walks now. I am so happy me and my baby are finally getting closer!

jeshykai's picture
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Typically heats start later, so Im not sure that is what it was from. Keep an eye on her and call your vet just in case to ask.

Also - if you aren't breeding, spay her around 6 months.

I'm glad she and you are getting that all important bond!

cisco9510's picture
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She is way too young for heat I would think... And I agree w/ Jess just keep an eye on it- if you see more call the vet.  We spayed Raven at 4.5/5months. Just to be on the safe side w/ the heat starting early.

The blood could have been from her bummy- Maybe tore it while going to bathroom. Wyatt did that when he was a puppy and it scared me so bad... Maybe check her there.

Glad you are getting to bond and things are going better!

blue4's picture
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Glad the walks are going great!  It's fun to find things to do together.  No advice about heat - never had a female.  Hope she's ok!

DJ's Dad's picture
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First heat cycles usually start between 7 - 9 months on bigger dogs, but of course, that's up to the individual female dog, too.   I am a huge advocate for spaying, and I try to get it done before the first cycle happens.  When I had Darmok, I called ahead for her spay surgery date when she was 7 months old, and wouldnt you know it, she came into heat that very week....had to put it off for a month, and that was not anything I wanted to go through again when I got Ziva. She was spayed at 4 1/2 months of age.

Since Athena is still so very young, I'm thinking you might want to look her over carefully, from tail to tonails and see if maybe she has a little cut or something that caused a little bit of bleeding, since it's not real likely that she is coming into heat just yet.

cammie001's picture
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lol i will check that. Today she did have diarrhea so im still watching if that gets better. I havent changed her food or done anything different. Hopefully i wont see any more blood.

cammie001's picture
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I heard it was better to let them go into heat once before you spay them. Is that true?

cisco9510's picture
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I had always heard that too cammie... I wasnt dealing with a heat and we had Cisco unaltered as well... They are both done now...

cammie001's picture
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i figured i would let her go into heat once then i would do it.. ill just pray i can get her to wear a diaper! (we have a white couch lol)

DJ's Dad's picture
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I dont think there are any crucial benefits to waiting till after.  Ziva matured just fine...she is 88 lbs of muscle and has a very deep chest and a menacing bark...no side affects to early spaying that I can tell, anyway.  I have read that spaying early cuts the chances of certain types of cancer, also. 

cammie001's picture
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well I do hate cancer lol Maybe it is something to think about.

Luke_Sian's picture
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Hey Cammie, sorry no advice on the heat thing but with the diarrhea try adding to her next meal some pured pumpkin or sweet potato. It firms up there stools. I've read here you guys over there can get the pumkin in the can (can't here is AUS). You can use that if you like. :)

jeshykai's picture
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That is old school! You do not want to deal with a heat and it does nothing for them.

charlenecm's picture
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She will also probably pee everywhere as that is how they let the 'boys' know they are in heat. 

glengate's picture
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Spaying before the first season cuts the risk of mammary cancer wayyyyy down. 

Livelaughlove1's picture
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Hey Cammie if you do decide to wait, keep in mind those doggie diapers dont work to well for Dobies (at least in my experience).  They tend to fall off because there is no tail to hold them in place and their lil nubbs are not sustantial enough.  I tried the diapers and the ones that have replaceable pads, no luck so I resorted to a blanket on the floor.. Luckily Bella is well mannered enough to know she needs to stay on her blanket :o)

rhondab's picture
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Just wrote a long thing on Bella before I saw this thread.

I have been waiting to have Bella spayed b/c of everything I read. I read so many things saying "you should wait until after they are a year old- so they will fully develope blah blah blah lol "

You mean I could have had her done already?? That bites lol - I really would have already had her done by now.  I guess I will have to wait until after her cycle- might as well stick out the year theory. Any reason I should not wait?  

Sorry Cammie - I don't have any info on the heat cycle - I - like you am trying to learn from everybody here. I have lots of questions on this topic- just wrote a book about it on another thread/ Topic 

Athenia is a cutie!! From everything I have been readin -She does seem young to be going through it right now. But then again.. I read the whole "wait until they are a year old to have them spayed" lol

Thats awesome you 2 were able to do some bonding!! Good luck with everything & keep all of us posted on how shes doing.

RB 

cammie001's picture
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Thank you so much guys! So she isnt in heat the blood muct have been from something else. I will try the sweet potato and she if that helps!

RB-Thank you!

How old does she need to be before I can spay her? I want to do it as soon as possible after everything yall are telling me!

Also just a quick update... The only training classes we have here are at petsmart and they have a puppy class. The vet said we should wait till she is 6 to 9 months to do any training because its important to let her be a puppy... I dont want to have a 65 lb dog (or Bigger) that i can't control.. what should I do? I know it is important to bond with her but this morning she went nuts and wouldnt stop shredding my arm and i lost it and popped her! i cried after! I can not imagine what I am going to do if she is like this when she is huge! I'm going to be in a lot of trouble! HELP =/

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It's never too early to train a puppy. Once she gets through with all her vaccinations, I'd say she's good to go.  Puppy classes at Petsmart are more of a socializing thing anyway, but they DO teach some basic commands, and even the socializing is well worth the price.  Waiting till they are 6 - 9 months old before training is wasting valuable learning time.  I took Z to Petsmart puppy classes when she was 4 months old.  Took her to the Intermediate class at 6 months old.  Continued taking her to various class settings after that, even.  We spent several weeks at agility awareness class, and even went a few weeks to a tracking/nose work class.  It's good for a doberman to keep it's mind busy.  They really do LOVE to learn, and once they get in a learning mode, they just want to know more and more and more. 

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Just to throw in my 2 cents...Deeks is almost 12 weeks old and he will be doing his 4th, one-on-one, class tomorrow.  He has mastered the recall, the sit and a 1-minute stay.  He is a bit rocky on the heel at this point. 

Ziva's dad is sooooo right when he says it is never too early.  My 15-year-old niece was here today and wanted badly to take a picture of Deeks, but he being the rowdy critter that he is, would not sit still.  So.....I put him on a sit/stay and she was able to get some great pictures.  Needless to say she was impressed and I was quite proud of my boy

We walk twice a day and work on obedience for short sessions (10 min) about 4-5 times a day.  As he ages we will increase our sessions but right now being a pup he tires of it quickly.  He does love it though and gets very excited when he sees his lead come out. 

I believe that we will be working on the down this week and possibly a 3-minute stay and then we will go into group sessions for advanced obedience and socialization. 

 

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Cammie001,

Lance and Lola are 15 weeks old today, and although each pup is different, I'd have to say Athena is going through a phase, as did L&L.  Hang in there.  They are phases and they pass quickly, so it is important to train during the phase.

Sign her up for puppy classes.  L&L have each other to learn from as well as other mature dogs around us.  The more she can learn from other dogs the better.

A light "pinch" to her neck just above the collar with your thumb and forefinger and middle finger, position your fingers like you'd make a snap.  The "pinch" is very light accompanied by a firm No or high pitched yelp should work.

This worked on Lola, but not on Lance, as you know each personality is different.  Give it a try with Athena's personality and see if it works.

With Lance the high pitch yelp and "pinch" do not work.  I have to growl my No's at him.  He is more stubborn and Lola is more aiming to please.

No matter how lightly her mouth comes in contact with you, make the correction that works.  She will eventually stop.

Always follow up by placing the chew toy of choice in their mouths and praising for biting the toy.

Socialization with other pups has to be the best training there is. 

I think Kevin posted the bite inhibition link somewhere.  I've read it and it helps.  Good luck.

And 5-6 months on the spaying.  Lola will go in August.  Lance is scheduled for July 12th (boys can go at 4 months).

Control_Freak's picture
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Personally, I think you should invest in professional help NOW.  Unfortunately I think you have been going through some things with Athena they you aren't able to handle on your own.  With everything you have tried things haven't gotten any better have they?  Better to get it fixed now before she is a full grown lady.

Joined: 2011-06-21

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About the spaying, the earlier, the better, maybe 4-6 months. Waiting until they're "mature" at age 1 is really just a myth, it's much better to spay your girl before her first heat so she doesn't have to go through the physical/psychological suffering of wanting to mate but being unable to. That's just my two cents, of course, but still.

talisin's picture
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Here is my input on the heat cycle. I worked at a vet hospital for many years and it was a myth about not spaying until after the first heat cycle.  "old school" people did, and some still do, believe that allowing the hormones to run a full cycle will in some way cause the dog to mature and become a more docile dog and others believed that it would somehow make a crazy dog to not allow a heat cycle and god forbid that old myth of having at least one litter of puppies. Truth is that spaying prevents a meriad of health problems especially mammory gland issues and cancers. Having a heat cycle stresses the dog and the owner and as we all know when an owner is stressed the dog then stresses more, (not to mention all the neighbors whose dogs want to find that little girl - some of the injuries I have seen in male dogs who tried to get to a female in heat are still nightmares) so please spay - and I have found with my experience that 5-6 months of age is good unless the parent also had an early heat cycle; 5-6 months should be sufficient but if the mom had an early heat find out how early and judge by that.

rgreen4's picture
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Cammie01 - when she "shreds" your arm is it with her teeth or her claws. The latter is easy to take care of with routine filing then down to round them off. "Popping" her won't hurt if it is done with a few fingers. You need to make sure she knows who is boss, and it's not her.

cisco9510's picture
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Cisco just tried to be the boss with the lady at the kennel this week. she told me she took control with a few knees and pops to nose... and now she says no jump or no bite and he plants his bum... i asked for some trainin tips.

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We started Cleo's obedience training at 16 week and on hindsight I would have  started sooner but this trainer is very popular and there was a wiating list.   We had 5 x 1-2-1 lessons with the trainer and Cleo absolutely loved it.   She got all the commands really quickly and seemed to want to please all the time.  We then graduated to a 'class' of 5 dogs of all breeds and sizes and she did really well and seemed to blossom - she was funny when a 'bigger' dog came near her to start with, she would lie down and cry, I think she is definitely a follower not a leader.  

She has progressed to the next class with sometimes 14 other dogs and is doing really well.   She absolutely loves the class and so do I.   She's still timid with the larger more boisterous dogs (they get some free play time at the end of the class) and it is interesting to watch her interacting - she knows the ones she is comfortable with and they are usually the ones who are smaller than her.

In fact there is a dacshound called Mr Beaujangles (Bo for short) and he has the same black and tan markings as Cleo, almost  a mini me, and they get on so well, it is so cute.

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Pictures please Scotty!!  We need pictures...  Sounds cute!

DJ's Dad's picture
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from cammie: Also just a quick update... The only training classes we have here are at petsmart and they have a puppy class. The vet said we should wait till she is 6 to 9 months to do any training because its important to let her be a puppy... I dont want to have a 65 lb dog (or Bigger) that i can't control.. what should I do? I know it is important to bond with her but this morning she went nuts and wouldnt stop shredding my arm and i lost it and popped her! i cried after! I can not imagine what I am going to do if she is like this when she is huge! I'm going to be in a lot of trouble! HELP =/

Cammie, Ziva used to do this to my arm with her feet ALL the time when she wanted attention.  She would 'claw' at my bare arm over and over with such gusto.  I started ligthtly smacking her on the toes as soon as she made contact with my arm....not hard, because it doesn't really take a lot of force, just the action alone will let them know that it's a reprimand.  She learned to 'lighten up' with her feet, and now this is the way she lets me know she needs to go out...she lightly taps me on my arm or leg with the tips of her toes, which I find a little bit endearing, to tell you the truth.  :)

Almost any undesirable behavior can be altered or stopped...you just need to figure out what works and use the least amount of force necessary in your corrections to accomplish the goal.

unityspirit's picture
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check this out. LOL 

talisin's picture
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The vets I worked for always instructed us never to pop on the nose because it can injure the sensitive nerve endings and affect the sense of smell and prevent one from being able to easily work with the mouth with the human hand. The nose is a super sensitive spot due to all the nerve endings and sensory perceptors and some of these lead to the eyes so best to not pop the nose. I like the toe training idea that Ziva's Dad used that would be better than popping on the nose and I would definitely ask any trainer why they are popping on or at the nose why they aren't using a different method.

Lance and Lola's picture
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Unityspirit what is that?  A full body diaper?  I've never seen such a thing.