MATING MALE DOBERMAN

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donnalauria55's picture
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Joined: 2015-01-19

Hello doberman parents!

My husband and I would like to mate our two year old male doberman.

Elias has a picture posted.

He is in perfect health.  We have his AKC papers and all necessary vet certifications.  Elias comes from a strong championship line of dobermans.  He has lines to Kimbertal Kennels - probably the largest doberman/rotweiler kennel in the tri-state area.  He has never been mated before.  After the litter is born we will have him neutered.

We are willing to travel within a 60 mile radius of our home (Sharon Hill, PA) to mate him.  We are, of course, seeking a female doberman of equal quality and health.

If anyone is interested please contact me at the following email address:

donnalauria55@gmail.com

Hoping to hear back from someone!

 

Donna Lauria and James Patterson

Sharon Hill, PA

 

Exactly what makes him worthy of passing on his DNA? Is he titled? Do his health clearances include OFA Hip/elbow ratings, Thyroid panel, liver/kidney panel, full blood workup, cardio ultrasound by a vet cardiologist, 24 hour holter monitor? 

You may not be aware of this, but Kimbertal is considered one of the biggest Doberman greeders in the USA. They import oversized European stud dogs and breed them to every bitch they placed on breeder terms..... untested and untitled bitches for the most part. I've seen way too many of them end up in rescue.

I'm sure you love your boy, but leave the breeding up to the people who put the effort into doing it right. No one who does it right would seek out a dog that isn't titled and health tested with a pedigree that shows generations of titled and tested dogs. 

As the stud dog owner, you are as responsible for what happens to the puppies as the bitch owner - are you willing to keep in contact with them and take back a puppy at anytime during its life and for any reason?

Dogs are not people, they don't need to ever be bred before they are spayed/neutered. There are so many unwanted dogs - only the best should be bred, and then by people who truly are dedicated to doing it right. Just in case you are wondering, I have not bred a litter in over 4 years and have no plans to do so for several years. I'm no ones competition - I love this breed but know that it is a breed that is not great health wise and indiscriminant breeding is the last thing it needs! I loved owned and studied the breed for 15 years under some of the best in the breed before I ever bred a litter, and no one breeds to one of my stud dogs that does not meet the standards I live by. 

Lots of people start out with a Doberman that is not breed worthy or from a good breeder - we learn with them and love them. The community of dogs is small - you never will get a chance to make a second first opinion.... if you have hopes for the future in the breed, neuter your boy and start getting an education.

donnalauria55's picture
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Joined: 2015-01-19

You are one of the rudest assholes I've ever encountered.

There's a way to say things - and you lack every ounce of tact there is.

 

CRDobe's picture
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Joined: 2014-11-06

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Ouch!! Fitzmar spoke very honestly and fairly- I don't see one tiny speck of rudeness or lack of tact in her answer to you. You, however, come across as very defensive...

MommaL's picture
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Joined: 2014-06-15

You will not find a kinder, more tactful advocate for the Doberman breed than Fitzmar. 

The fact that you don't want to hear the comments, doesn't make them rude. 

 

Sgourle's picture
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Joined: 2014-07-18

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I agree that the response was succinct and quite polite. Fitzmar made a number of very good points, and certainly left it open for Elias to be proven as a properly titled and health tested dog. Those elements are all incredibly important to a breeder, and should be front and foremost when offering a dog for stud services. 

donnalauria55's picture
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Joined: 2015-01-19

And you all are nuts.

I didn't ask for this person's OPINIONS.  I asked for anyone who is interested in mating their female doberman.   That's ALL I asked for.

I happen to have my own advocate - we have two of her male dobermans.  She is a doberman breeder who resides in Kansas.

She has YEARS of knowledge and can run rings around "Fitzmar" as far as doberman knowledge goes.

She has already counseled and advised us on the best course of action to take.  I have everything I need to either proceed with this or NOT proceed with this.

I thought this website was supposed to be supportive of all who are doberman parents - not criticizing someone who is just reaching out to others because we would like to mate our Elias.

I will never post here again - so thanks for that, everyone.

Lady Kate's picture
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Joined: 2009-10-28

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Wow... that was interesting..  *shaking head

Mary.. thank you again for your insight and guidance throughout the years.. You have PERSONALLY been responsible for many of us keeping sane and learning so much about our precious kids.

No one more than me ( I?) appreciate you and respect your opinion. Bless you!!

Katie

P.S. if only ONE person on this Forum will learn something about responsible breeding... This ugly thread will be worth it.

Kim
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Joined: 2012-02-05

Thank you from me, too, Mary. For all your dedication and love for the breed, and wanting to see it survive and be healthy. For continuing to post your information every time someone wants to breed their dog.

I owned three Dobes bred by people like the OP. And all three died way too early - cardio/cancer, cardio/allopecia/Wobbler's, and flat out cardio-dead-in-24-hours. (At 4 years old.) It devastated me, and because I couldn't find a breeder who cared enough to even participate in DNA testing, I never have had another purebred.

I had no idea there were so many health problems when I had my boys, and in fact, many vets did not either. Dog World was still predicting Dobes would live to be 14-16 years old. And yet when I talked to a vet doing research, she told me that 50% of all females and 90% of all males at the time carried a cardio genetic component.

That doesn't mean all of those dogs will develop it, and hopefully the odds have gotten better since '95.

Donnalauria, I don't know if you'll read this, but if you breed your dog without the testing and proving that dedicated breeders like Glengate do, the chances are very good that you, too, will break people's hearts by breeding dogs that don't live very long.

I've been on the Doberman forums almost since they existed - there are always going to be people who refuse to learn or see and think that anyone who tries to educate them is  rude and nasty. It won't stop me from trying to educate about the breed I love and wish to protect - there are plenty of others who are open to learning. 

I always tell people to love the dog(s) they have, but most of them should not be bred. I've spayed way more bitches than I ever  bred - and if you looked at their pedigrees they were as good as they get ... except for my first girl who was pure BYB  :-)  LOVED her for 11 years (I got lucky), but spayed her as soon as I learned that she should not be bred.

To the original poster, there are forums on facebook that celebrate the back yard breeder and bad pedigrees including albino breeders. I'm sure if you look you can find them. It still won't make what you want to do right..... JMHO

ladygertievader's picture
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Joined: 2016-03-28

It takes all kinds of people doesnt it?? Lets hope she doesnt post again like she said.

Danielleak's picture
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Joined: 2014-12-11

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Wow we are all pretty .... Well.... Quick to judge!! All that was asked was if anyone was looking for a stud!  The question of correct health testing could've been asked with out the jump down her throat about her being a byb!! I'm sure EVERY amazingly perfectly reputable breeder started as someone asking the question.. "Looking for a stud or bitch"!!! And as well EVERY. Reputable breeder has had a pupp that's not "perfect"! I soooooo agree that most people shouldn't breed if we want our pets to be perfect. But no one gave her a chance to answer. Fitzmar you are very well educated and I'm sure have perfect puppy's and dogs and started out as the perfect breeder. However you are just like my husband and have no soft side. You are quick to think your advice is the only way and everyone else is stupid! You are but ONE person that has an educated OPINION. I too am done with this forum as it's clear if someone doesn't agree with fitzmar they are hackled and bad talked. Very sad guys, very sad :(

I don't care if everyone agrees with me - everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But, when you are a true dog person, you are going to try and educate people. If you like the look of a certain breed, then thank a good breeder. It only takes a couple of generations of bad breeding to almost lose breed type - it takes knowledge and passion to keep a breed looking and acting like what they are supposed to be. 

I will tell you that most good breeders did not start out as a byber - most started out with a pet and caught the show/performance bug. They then found a good breeder and started learning. 

All most people ever want is a nice pet - that is fine.... but when they then want to breed that pet without gaining the knowlege that should go with the responsibility of being a breeder.... then they should not be surprised that someone is going to call them on it.

donnalauria55's picture
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Joined: 2015-01-19

SCREW YOU

Obviously, donnalauria55, you are a high class individual..... and that is my last attempt to inform you of anything. I wish your dogs a long and happy life.

AlphaAdmin's picture
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Joined: 2010-01-18

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I received an email complaining that Fitzmar was being rude. Reading the posts, this is certainly not the case. Good comments, Fitzmar. 

Donna, if you're really interested in becoming a good breeder, it would be a good idea to listen to these people, or similar people. Sometimes they can be rude (not in this case) but it's only due to passion and love for a breed that they really work hard to preserve. They have a lot of knowledge that will save you a lot of pain and suffereing.  

talisin's picture
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Joined: 2011-02-25

wow, I agree with Fitz - if you love animals your first job is to educate when it appears that there is a place for further information to be had by the inquirer.

I doubt that anyone would just post a query for "mate" for their dog and not expect to at least have a few people want to know why and how they think that dog is appropriate breeding material for their dog - I would at least hope that the responder would ask the exact same questions that Fitzmar did!!!

If you thought that someone would just jump in and say "hey pick my dog" and that be that then you came to the wrong forum, this group is about education first. And we have all learned from this knowledgable group that all the questions Fitz asked are appropriate questions TO anyone wanting to breed their dog. And if you can't stand these types of questions and have the appropriate answers then you do need to further your education on what it takes to "better the breed".

I believe that Fitz is very direct and forthcoming and that does not translate as rude - rude is name calling which I believe was not on Fitz's end of the conversation.

I would like to have heard the answers to Fitz's questions as that would have shown you had a vested interest in making the breed stronger and healthier. Lack of answers validates Fitz's judgment call.

it's been a few weeks since I popped in this was very surprising and I am glad to see admin checked it out and agrees with the forum's opinion

 

Lady Kate's picture
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Joined: 2009-10-28

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Thanks Webby for your input. I know you value Fitzmar's opinion, knowledge and experience as much as we all do..

It's good to hear from 'da boss.'

Smooches to your pooches

donnalauria55's picture
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Joined: 2015-01-19

I found another doberman forum called "All Doberman".  You have to invited to post.  It's a closed group.

These wonderful doberman parents are helpful;  they post informative information regarding anything and everything having to do with dobermans - health issues, ear cropping, BREEDING - yeah, I said BREEDING, foods, playing, sleeping, etc., etc., etc.

This forum is MUCH friendlier than THIS one. 

Fitzmar - you wished my dobermans long and healthy lives.  They WILL have long and healthy lives.  My  husband and I are very responsible people.  We put our boys ahead of ourselves and everyone else in our lives.

It's such a shame that others agreed with your rudeness.  There isn't anything that makes me think that I am perfect when it comes to breeding - since we've never done it before.  Your tirade was inappropriate and INSULTING.

As for everyone else who "sided" with you - GO TO HELL. ALL OF YOU.

CRDobe's picture
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Thought she was done posting here .....

Sgourle's picture
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Troll much? Pretty sure that I've never seen a regular here tell anyone to "go to hell."

There is a forum for everyone - even for the people who don't belive that albino Dobermans are albino's, and that it is ok to breed them. Such is life, and being responsible is much harder than not being responsible..... and there are way more irresponsible people breeding out there than responsible people - so it stands to reason that there are forums for them.  The reason they are private is to keep responsible people from coming on and posting corrections - I know several people who have been kicked off of forums like that because they didn't keep their mouths shut about some of the irresponsible things that were going on. At least the OP is getting information.... one can only hope that it is decent information. 

I used to get really upset about these people, but I've learned that I can't change everyone, and just feel bad that there will always be a need for Doberman rescue. Obviously, the OP feels differently and likes to curse and kick about anyone who tries to tell them that they might be wrong - haha.

tess's picture
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Joined: 2012-01-28

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Hey everybody I've sure missed this group. Fitz, you are awesome. I love your passion and knowledge of this breed we all love so much. Your knowledge shouldn't be taken lightly. The OP should of taken what you said to heart. I personally like people who bottom line things. Nothing I hate more than getting the run around when asking a question. I've been asked many times if I wanted to stud out Axel and I've first pointed out the obvious (neutered) and then I would say I leave that to the professionals. Thanks for being that professional. If you do ever plan on throwing your hat back in the ring and breed another litter, keep me in mind.

Tess 

AresMyDobie's picture
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Joined: 2015-02-28

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I don't know why this got so nasty ? These are questions that any good breeder will be asking themselves. Is the dog titled? Is the bitch titled? Are they health tested ? Have they had their hips checked ? Do they get holtered and echoed ? Will the pups all be health tested ? Will the pups be cropped? 

There's a lot that goes into breeding other then having a registered purebred. And it's not cheap or easy to raise pups and make sure they all go to good homes. Breeding should only be done for the betterment of the breed. 

cmcrowder's picture
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Really - wow this was intense but very interesting.  Good breeders take their Dobie passion very seriously.  Honestly, I look at all of your beautiful purebred dogs in admiration and awe but I love my Sally, in all her beautiful, one and only mutliness.  

I will definately be looking for good advice if and when we intend to get another.  Where I live, Craigslist is the  only option and I want to rescue every single dog on there.  I hate those posts "must rehome my 6 month old (whatever).  So sad.