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rnchristyc's picture
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Hi. I am trying to find a black female with excellent temperament for children. I want parents and puppy to be of excellent health, and that have had the proper testing. I do not want to show, but I want the option of breeding her. I have been researching and looking for reputable breeders, but nothing so far. Any help would be greatly appreciated!! Breeder names, etc. I live in west Tennessee and would like a breeder within reasonable driving distance( like up to 4-5 hours away).

Thanks
Christy

Good luck!

I think you need to spend some time on this site http://glengate.webs.com/buyingguide.htm and then start your search maybe with some different criteria. I dont think a reputable breeder will give you a second look with what you are wanting.

Kar-jinx's picture
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Why do you want to breed?  Do you want to be a back yard breeder?  Unless you are a back yard breeder who cares very little for the puppies and mother, you won't make money!  I know from experience.  I was about in my mid 20's and friend's and relatives begged me to breed my female.  They used every excuse from they would buy a pup to it would be good for my kids to see the cycle of life.  I fell for it.  She had a litter of 5.  Then the bills started to mount.  There was the mother rejecting one that was born on the concrete floor of our basement that she rejected because it was cold.  I basically wore him in my shirt for hours until he warmed up.  The vet said that was a miracle he survived.  Then mom had a few days stay in the vet hospital with the pups.  Then she stopped nursing.  The tail docking, the shots, the worming.  All the pups had worms from mom who developed a taste for kitty pâté in the yard, and probably picked up worms there.  When she stopped nursing, I had to syringe feed the entire litter.  You should be so lucky that they only need this every hour and a half to 2 hours all day and night!   Then 2 of the 5 who said they wanted puppies backed out.  Their landlords wouldn't allow them to have Dobermans and cried financial hard times.  Mom Dobe also decided she was not responsible for the puppies elimination which meant I was.  So rubbing moistened cotton balls over the puppies certain parts to simulate licking the mother would do to get them to eliminate.  Almost forgot the prenatal vet bills too.  The syringe feeding was a blast!  Not ! Measuring from the tip of the nose to the belly button every couple days and making up the new length of syringe all the time, then you have to get this entire length of tube into the pup every 2 hours for feeding special puppy formula which was expensive too.  All 5 puppies day and night, feeding, wiping for elimination, sterilizing the feeding tubes, and syringes every hour and a half to 2 hours.  Then hold down a job to boot.  Not!  I had to take an unpaid leave because I had to be there.  Looking for GREAT homes, not just anyone who was going to tie my babies in a yard or leave a short hair dog in a cold Canadian climate because they don't know better.  The puppies also imprinted on me.  Which meant where I went, they went, even the bathroom.  Of course this goes on for weeks.  12 to be exact, before they went to homes.  In that time I cooked and cleaned and was mom to 3 boys under 10.  Our basement flooded in a massive storm just after the the last of them was taken to it's new home.  The cleaning of their poop and pee on the basement floor with appropriate cleaning and disinfecting products that worked but wouldn't harm the puppies or mom.  Everywhere I turned for those 12weeks, it cost me money that I didn't have.   I was with only one litter, A BACK YARD BREEDER !  Broke, no rest, , a walking zombie from lack of sleep, and very lucky that I didn't loose my job.    My female Doberman got so sick, I thought I was going to lose her.  She looked so horrid, that I took a picture of her to remind me forever what I did.  I lost that picture in the basement flood unfortunately, or I would share it with you.  I had her spayed as soon as I possibly could.  Where were all the people who wanted pups when I was sleeping in one hour increments?  I wouldn't dare ask them for help and share the information that I was a fool.  This is the first time I have told this to anyone.  Please, don't do it.  Everything may go well for you, but this is just an example of what could happen.   THERE IS NO PROFIT IN BREEDING!  Back yard breeders get rid of the pups without a care much too young because they cost money to feed cutting their profits.  Shots & worming cost money too.  Most do a home butcher job on the tails to save a few bucks.  The lie & tell you sob stories about the mom being unable to care for the pups or that she died.  Anything to get you to take the pup early.  I worried constantly about the 2 that went to people I did not know.  It gave me nightmares for years.  

I might have forgotten some of the other problems I had then, as this was 30 years ago.  Please learn from my mistake.  I hope no one here thinks less of me from this, but I had to share my experience so another could learn from my mistake.  I am a sensitive caring person who actually cared & would do whatever it took to make sure the puppies survived & thrived.  Even the pup who the mom rejected on day one.  The vet told me he would not survive and just put him away from the litter & let him die.  No way.  I made sure he was warm, ignored that piece of advise and he by miracle, did live.  Even the 3 pups that went to family and friend did not fare well in adulthood.  One hit by a car, one sold to an unknown person because the dobe was more than they could handle, and the other shot by a farmer for getting into his livestock repeatedly.  He was by law entitled to do so.  He warned the owner multiple times.  Sad story but true.  And the 2 I sold to people I had interviewed and thought I had done my best?   Never heard from them again leaving me wondering for a lifetime.

rnchristyc's picture
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Joined: 2012-12-02

Thank you both for the feedback!  Rnddobermans, please elaborate on why a reputable breeder would not want to give me a puppy. I did look at the link you provided and it had tons of great information, and I have learned a lot. The only thing that I can come up with, is that I said that I wanted to breed but not show.  Kar-jinx, Thanks so much for telling me your experience with breeding. I'm sorry it turned out so bad.  That would also give me nightmares!  I still am not sure about breeding, but I would never do it to make money.  I would only do it for the right reasons, after doing lots of research. Thank you both for not being harsh.  It seems like everywhere I turn for help, all I get is people telling me what I should not do, and never give me any good information.  I am trying to do this the right way and not buy the first puppy that I find.  I do still need names of some breeders.  I have found several but they all seem to have lots of unhappy puppy owners.  Thank you both so much for your time!!

Kar-jinx's picture
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Rnchristyc

what rnddobermans means is that a breeder of high quality Dobes wil never allow you to breed one of their puppies.  They ( if they are reputable) usually only sell on a non breeding contract.  You must prove you have had the dog surgically altered.  When my son bought his pet quality min pin, it was a certain price with papers.  Contracts were signed.  If he were to be proven to have bred the dog, he had to give the dog back, he would lose his money.  He was given back $500 after he proved the pup was neutered.  Either they sell show quality or pet quality.  Both have contracts to be adhered to.  Many people call themselves " breeders" but are nothing more than back yard breeders.  The forge documents, falsely say they breed the best.  The best breeders breed for a certain size, temperament, and health.  They would not consider breeding for XL, Superior size, warlock, so called special colours.  Never ever would they want to continue a Z factored Doberman line.  Fawns and blues are lovely colours, but come with their own unique health problems.  If the seller tells you they are special, or rare, RUN!  They are out to deceive you, and possibly charge you extra.  Yes, they are more rare, but also more expensive to own because of their skin & coat issues.  

The breeder will question you extensively, be prepared.  They have certain requirements that vary, but do you have your own home?  Fenced yard?  Do you vacation?  Who will watch the dog then?  Do you & your spouse work?  How many hours? What hours, days, afternoons, midnights? How many hours per week?  Do you have children? How old? Do you plan on more children?  Is this your first dog?  Have you ever owned a doberman before?  what happened to each of your previous pets? If you have a dog, what gender is it?  Are you familiar with same sex aggression?  Do you have a veterinarian?  

You'll probably think they are nuts with all the questions.  But this is pretty well standard.  If your breeder didn't ask you these questions & more, they are not good breeders.  If you get to choose your puppy from the litter, they are not a good breeder.  The breeder will pick the pup that suits your lifestyle in your preferred sex if available.  

Would you consider a rescue instead?  They sometimes have young adults and puppies.  Someone here can probably steer you in the right direction according to your location, but they have certain standards and questions too.  If you have your heart set on a registered purebred with breeding rights, try attending dog shows and find breeders there.    They can answer a lot of questions.  You might be looking at $10,000+  for what you are asking for.  I've seen $7,000 here in Canada, but she was almost at the age to quit having pups, and may have been sold with a contract not to be bred as well, I didn't ask. 

Please continue to read or use the search on the forum.  

Kar-jinx's picture
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My Dobermans were all someone else's cast off except one.  They were all great dogs.  Dobes are tough for first time owners.  They are known to be very stubborn and you'll find the dreaded Doberteens sometimes exhausting.  It lasts quite sometime.  This is the most common period that a Doberman is given up to a rescue or humane society.  I have recently heard of the same Doberman being returned 6 times to the humane society in his 18 month life.  All because he was a jumper. He is now on his way to a rescue 6 hours away.   He loved to jump on people.  I couldn't take him because I already have a male.  It was his only issue.  

mackerboys mom's picture
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 Kar-jinx good try but it didn't sink in what you was trying to get across to her,I am sorry you had to go thru that years ago a hard lesson learned, I know we've all been there done that at one time or other!She needs to go to Petfinder and type in doberman and go thru every one that I'm sure at one time somebody loved them decided for whatever reason they didn't want so they threw them away most without a second thought sorry it just breaks my heart when so many need a home!I know from experience because I had a breeder give me a Doby puppy my Mackerboy who passed this spring at the age of 5 from a bad heart which ran in the kennel which I didn't know because I too was dumb and didn't know better not that for a second do I regret getting my Boy.Sorry just a sore spot with me good luck.        Dodie & Hoss

Everyone has different opinions on what a reputable breeder is. The site I gave you goes through a lot of info and describes what to look for in a good breeder. A good reputable breeder is NEVER going to let a female go to a home that may possibly want to breed her. MANY reasons for that...good breeders have spent years producing the dogs they have and do not want their names ruined by one irresponsible persons decisions, new people lack the knowledge of what to do and why you do it. Any look through the papers, shelters and especially the rescues show you exactly why it is not a good idea to breed unless you know what you are doing and why. Good breeders breed the best they have to the best they can find and they do so to continue to improve the breed, following the breed standard.  It is terribly expensive to breed and if you do it right than you are not making money at all. I could go into detail about that with my last litter but will not, to put it in a nutshell im still paying it off and it has been 3 years ago. All good breeders will sell that female to a home on  co-ownership with a spay contract. Many of those contract have clauses in them should the female end up being bred against contract you will end up being taken to court and pay many times over for the deed.

why exactly do you think you want to breed? What is bottom line goal?


Breeding is the activity you do AFTER you have spent years doing everything else - it is not a beginner activity.  I don't have time tonight to go into everything I did before I ever bred a litter - suffice it to say that I had been involved in the breed for 15 years before I ever bred a litter.

Also breeding a litter the right way costs a minimum of $5000 for a litter of 5ish and you basically don't make any money doing it. 

No reputable breeder will sell a pet to someone who wants to breed but not show. Pets go on limited registrations and a spay/neuter contract.

DJ's Dad's picture
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All the reasons to NOT breed have already been stated. 

If you are looking for a doberman because you love the breed, then consider getting one from a doberman rescue.  There are far too many good dogs out there that are needing homes to even think about adding to the population just for fun. 

My sister in law bred her female 8 years ago just because so many of her friends said "you should get puppies out of her, I'll buy one!" then they backed out AFTER the litter of 10 were born.  She gave two of her sons a pup, gave her daughter a pup, gave her brother a pup, kept one for herself, sold TWO of them very cheaply because they were already 9 weeks old, and gave the other three away.  Guess what?  Her brother got divorced, kicked out, and gave his dog back to her.  One of her sons and her daughter moved back home and brought their dogs with them.  (She now has 5 dobermans living in her house, not counting all the people, and two of the males have been kept separated for at least 6 of those eight years because they fight every time they look at each other) The other son mistreated his dog and the dog got SO aggressive, he bit people and had to be put down.  She has no idea what happened to the others. 

Bottom line-----things dont always turn out like you plan when you breed your dog and are not prepared for the worst to happen.  Three words....DONT DO IT.

Kar-jinx's picture
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This is just another example of why not to breed.  I hope this thread gets read over & over by thousands.   It does make me feel a bit better knowing someone else made the same mistake, but another sad ending.  I don't know how anyone can raise animals, caring for them and not get emotionally attached.  I couldn't ever stop wondering how they were with the new owners. I was devastated that the one was killed on a busy highway.  And this was a very well off relative I thought I could trust.  That dog was to grow up protecting a greenhouse operation by his Doberman looks but well  socialized by all employees,  living inside warm & cozy and relaxing in their spacious house by the fireplace. He'd be warm all day too and have free run of many acres under glass inside the greenhouse.  The employees loved him dearly too as he made his daily rounds searching them all out among rows and rows of towering roses. He would have been fed the best money could buy,  vet care, etc.  They didn't want a vicious dog.  The one I thought got the best home of the 5.  

I almost got one of my own pups back.  They one my cousin re sold because it was too much dog for them to handle. They sold him to a young girl, and because she rented & was moving, the new landlord forbade her from bringing the dog.  It would have no life in a high rise building even if the landlord gave his blessing.  Which is why breeders won't sell unless you own a house. I tried to take him, but my female hated him the moment we walked in the door.  He was well socialized according to the young girl and played with all the dogs in her neighborhood.  But he got quite defensive when my female started growling at him.  There was no way I could control 2 grown Dobermans ( mine 63 lbs, and the returning pup now 75 lbs) who clearly hated each other.

Back in the days of waterbeds, the puppies couldn't climb up with me, so they slept lined up on the floor near my side, which meant I had to buy several hot water bottles to help them stay warm.  Getting up at regular intevals to change the water in the hot water bottles to just the right temperature.  They lose body heat so quickly without the mother.  I hated putting that feeding tube down their little throats, but an eye dropper could cause puppy formula to be forced into the lungs causing pneumonia, and bottle feeding meant I would never sleep.  As my vet said, each pup would nurse on a bottle for several minutes times 5 hungry puppies, I'd be looking at better than an hour per feeding.  And listening to the hungry pups squealing for food while I fed one was unbearable.  They ate every 2 hours at first.  Constant trips to the vet to weigh them, measure length of feeding tubes, sterilizing equipment, colour coding their syringes, figuring out how much to feed, colour coding the pups, and the cleaning never ended! .........those were the longest and most sleepless weeks of my life.  I was never so happy to see a pup eat solid food.  That day I could finally see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Baby gates couldn't stop them, they climbed it like monkeys.  I still wonder if they grew up "normal dogs" because of the lack of teaching by their mother.   Outside this forum I've never told this before, I was so ashamed of myself, but maybe I should be telling it.

DJ's Dad's picture
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Kar-Jinx, yes, I am glad you are telling your experiences.  Hopefully someone that is considering breeding their female "just to have puppies" for whatever reason, will read your stories and change their mind.

So sorry that you had to go through all that, but, I believe that everything happens for a reason.....and it's quite possible that the reason you went through all that was to help deter someone else (or, because this forum is read by many) or MANY potential byb'ers to stop in their tracks before they make the same mistakes.

Thank you for your honesty.

Kim
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Kar-Jinx - I agree, and think none the less of you for posting your story. If anything, I admire you for sharing it!  It definitely should be read by anyone considering breeding their dog, or buying a pup with that intent.

rnchristyc's picture
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I really appreciate everyone's comments. Like I said earlier, it's not about the money.  I love animals and see them as my children. I bought my first dog, a Westie, 15 years ago from a woman that lived relatively close to me.  Everything seemed great until I went to get the puppy.  He was very tiny and nasty. She wouldn't let me go with her to see the mom, but brought her up to me and she was matted with feces and blood.  The smell almost made me sick. I could not let her have him back because I already loved him. When he was a little over a year old, his leash broke and he took off and got hit by a car.  I was completely heart broken. Shortly after that, I saw on the news where the breeder was charged with 250 counts of animal cruelty and is currently in a federal prison for the rest of her life.

 I currently have 2 Westies. One I bought from a great breeder (Crawford 13years old ) and the other (Lilly 5years old), I got from a rescue. They had raided a puppy mill and had something like 23 Westies to place. I had already sent in my application to the rescue so it worked out perfectly. 

This will be my first experience with a Dobe, and I definitely want to do the right thing.  I have taken everything that has been said to heart.  Thank you all for your honesty. What I'm the most scared of is trying to get the puppies into a good home. I could not bear the thought of someone mistreating them.

Soooooooo,  I think for my first dog, I will spay and just learn about the breed for a while.  Then possibly breed sometime down the road.  

So. With that cleared up, I need a good breeder.  

You describe your experience with the so called EXACTLY WHY you will never be sold a female from a reputable breeder without a spay contract.

The link has already been given for you to research, you can look on the DPCA website for breeders.

rnchristyc's picture
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Thank you!!