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kimipoo12's picture
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Joined: 2010-06-07

up coming litter of doberman puppies due in late august 2010.out of european and american bloodlines.limited regestration 600.00 and full regestration 750.00.must have doberman knowladge.check out website at http://hstrial-KimCornell.homestead.com/

What health testing has been done on any of your breeding stock? I don't see anything in your website that states anything nor can I find them on the OFA website. I sure hope this isn't the same breeder that I tried helping a puppy owner from. Bad scenerio all around.

I hope for anyone seriously looking at this litter or ANY produced from this breeder that they full well know that both sire and dam should be health tested for Cardio including an echocardiogram and ultrasound, Eyes cerfed, hips OFA, thyroid tested (not the same test your vet runs at the local lab) and vWD status.

To the poster I would strongly reconsider if you are going to continue to breed that you screen your homes much better. That you quit selling your dogs with full registration.I'm very guarded with this breeding situation it sounds way to familiar with a girl I tried to help with her uncotrollable dog, very bad situation that the dog was sold into. Hope it is not the same but still some serious questions to be answered before people consider a puppy. Kimbertail is one of the dogs pedigree anyone can google and find out all of the negatives assocaiated with this.

BUYERS PLEASE BEWARE! Do your homework, it pays to buy QUALITY dogs from REPUTABLE breeders!

Lady Kate's picture
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Joined: 2009-10-28

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Thank You Desiree for your desire to protect, not only this beloved breed, but unsuspecting owners who will end up in possible heartbreak.

The desire to own a Doberman comes in many forms, sorry to say, not everyone is ethical and cannot assure the quality of future litters.

Smooches to the Pooches

Katie and Sofia

Another point I would like to make regarding buying puppies is alot of people are looking to spend the "least" amount of money so they search in different ways to buy a Doberman. They get hooked into breedings that do not do health testing, no earcropping and think they are going to save money. I will use my area for example, their are breeders close to my area that sell Dobermans and they sell them uncropped from untested or limited tested breeding stock, forget the fact they do nothing with the dogs and have no titles, are raised in crappy conditions, poorly socialized. They will sell a uncropped puppy for less money then it would cost someone to buy one of my health tested champion working titled puppies that were doted on and socialized up the ying yang and come cropped. They then take this same poorly bred backyard breeder puppy to a cropper and find out it is going to cost them in upwards of 1200. to crop this dog. Of course they didn't do the research in the beginning they were just after a Doberman. Now they not only have a unhealthy, poorly bred, poorly socialized puppy from a backyard breeder but they are paying more money then it would have cost them to do the research and buy from a reputable person with health tested, titled, quality dogs. Off my soap box, buyers do your research regarding buying ANY puppies.

azorns's picture
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Joined: 2010-06-28

I guess you consider my Dobermans poorly bred backyard dog. I bought from local people that don't show their dogs and I don't show mine. Zena has had two liters now and I didn't crop their ears. Not everyone likes cropped ears or think it is to mean. All three of my dogs ears are done though. No I didn't really plan on bred if she has a liter when in heat then it happens. I have had my dogs tested for health issues and they go to the vet on regular bases. The puppies we have interact with us and mom and dad and big brother so the are socialized puppies and I guess you would say I am a backyard breeder. I love my dogs just as much as you love yours what matter about the cost if your not showing them and I have people that have called me back and said their vet told them to show that dog it would be a great show dog. I don't know much about the show dogs but I do know I love my Doberman babies and my kids tell me we treat the 4 legged kids better than we do them.

azorns's picture
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Joined: 2010-06-28

Oh and I do ask alot of questions of the people that want to buy my puppies. If I don't totally believe them I will drop by their homes to see if I really want to sell to them or not. I sell to people that have other dogs and believe they are dog lovers. I will not sell to anyone that says they want to use for like a junkyard dog or to be unloved like that it isn't type of people I want to sell to and I will be honest and tell them that as well. I totally believe it is my job as a dog lover to make sure they go to a good home and even tell people that if something happens to call me I will take the dog back if they can not have it anymore or help them sell it.

rgreen4's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-26

Azorns - I think you are a lot above a backyard breeder. The term as generally used is someone who is only one degree removed from a puppy mill. When I got Princess, I was asked by the breeder to fill out a puppy applications. This set me back a bit, but then when I realized the aim, I agreed with the process. I certainly agreed with the breeder's aim to know more about the home to which the puppy would be going. Any breeder who cares that much is not a backyard breeder.

While you may not be a professional breeder engaged in high end and high dollar shows and activities and certainly don't take out ads campaigning your dogs and advertising your kennel, you are in the middle ground. There is a term that applies to a breeder who is interested and concered about the breed and the home to which the puppies go. It is Master Breeder. The are occassional breeders, many times not even having a single litter per year and the vast majority of the time the puppies are reared in the house as opposed to outside in either a pen or kennel run.

While our dogs may not be "show quality", they are certainly well bred and because of their early start and socialization, they are far better for us in our homes than one of the "name" houses whose photos show lines of outside kennels full of dogs. In my case, when I picked up Princess, (after a day and a half drive in the winter weather) I sat in the living room of the breeder with Princess in my arms and talked about our dogs. It was also not the first converstation with the breeder having had several phone conversations before that. When I got back to the motel that evening (after a 1/2 day drive) with my girl she was well acclimated and had already been partially crate trained. That night I was prepared for a crying puppy when we first went to bed, but I was treated to heavy breathing as she went right to sleep. (She did wake me about 2 AM to go out to potty).

As for accidental breeding, it does happen. If you have a registered qualified intact male and a registered qualified intact female, and they get together at a time you have not planned, that does not disparage the litter. It happened to me and it was their second litter. It just was not a timing of my choice as my schedule was crowed. Fortunately, my next door neighbor was a breeder (not Dobermans) and was willing to come over periodically and make sure Windy and the puppies were doing well the one weekend I had to be gone. (My male was boarded that weekend so she did not have to worry about him). My neighbor who was at first apprehensive because it was a Doberman mama, commented to me she was far more settled and gentle with her than her own females were when hey had litters (one had actually bitten her).

I'm so glad you interview your pet homes! BRAVO to you. What health testing DO you do? You don't have to have to have SHOW quality dogs to breed, your missing the point. I find it appalling that you state " No I didn't really plan on breeding if she has a litter while in heat then it happens" Well we all know how breeding happens and to sit blindly by while your female goes in and out of  heat all the time and if it happens it happens! SICK! I can see a accidental breeding but to just let it keep happening is wrong. Just because your dog goes to the vet doesn't mean that you are doing what is right for the breed or the appropriate health testing. Again WHAT health testing have you done that your dogs should be reproducing?

1.ARe they both OFA'd? Or had the hips Xray

2.What is the vWD status on both of your dogs? Do you know what the offspring are?

3. Have they had cardio testing done, echocardiogram, holter?

4. Have they had recent blood work done checking for liver issues?

5. Have they had thyroid testing done. Not the simple ones your vet does that only show a partial picture, the kind that are sent out to universities that give the total picture.

6. Have the eyes been cerfed?

A vet is the LEAST qualified to decide if a dog is show quality so having one of your puppy buyers come back and say that the vet told them that, means absolutely nothing. I'm glad you treat your pets so nicely. My kids have always said the same thing about my dogs that they are treated better then them. As far as the ears MOST people DO want the ears cropped. I didn't ask what you charge for your puppies nor do I care. Again in MOST cases a puppy buyer can buy from a reputable breeder and end up paying the SAME amount in the long run that they could from a backyard breeder. That is my point! Plain and simple. 

 

Rgreen I hardly consider if you analyze his email that he would be considered a middle of the road. Re read it thoroughly. He does some good things that everyone should do such as interview and actually care where the puppies go, turning down inappropriate homes, thank goodness for this. I know it has been quite awhile since you had a litter and there is much more health testing that can be done to protect our breed. To sit blindly by and let your dogs reproduce if it happens and not to be producing quality dogs is a darn right shame. I'm glad the poster loves his dogs so much and in his eyes cares for them well. You can have nice pet dogs and love them without reproducing something you know nothing about. And it is obvious from his post that he is not a Master breeder as this website would call it. So until the questions that I've asked above are answered then no I wouldn't consider him a middle of the road breeder. Way to many dogs out being bred that shouldn't be. Just because you have 2 reg. dogs doesn't mean everyone should breed. Think of where the world would be. I think we all should be breeding to improve the breed not fill the earth with unwanted dogs. NOt saying that his dogs end up that way but most do. My dogs are raised in my home with much socialization and raised with every headstart that can be given to them.
Any glance through my website and the blog I kept on our last litter will give you an idea how much we put into our litters. I don't need to solicit buyers as everytime I breed a litter it is sold before they are born. I'm  not saying these things to make myself look better then others, I deeply care for our breed and the FUTURE of our dogs. I'm not trying to slam people for breeding only trying to make them think and to do the right thing. TEST your dogs pets or breeding stock. Buyers beware!
 

glengate's picture
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Joined: 2009-07-22

I think it would be a great idea for anyone interested in purchasing a Doberman puppy to spend a lot of time on this resource:

http://dpca.org/BreedEd/kb/index.php/articles/43-miscellaneous/362-buying-a-doberman-pinscher

I think it's pretty helpful in showing people why it is so important to buy puppies from responsible breeders that do more than just add puppies to the world. 

The reality is that upwards of 8 million pets are euthanized in north America annually.  There should be valid reasons for breeding any litter, and to me, it is to improve the breed.  That is only done through extensive pedigree research, extensive health testing, and proving the merits of the dogs being bred through showing, trialing, temperament testing, etc. 

Thank you Glengate well said and a wonderful article

cf33's picture
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Joined: 2010-10-02

Agree! I am not nor will I ever be a breeder and no I do not show dogs but people need to be smart and do tons of research on the breed of their choice,investigate,research,and ask a ton of questions,go to shows,the nationals,DO YOUR HOMEWORK before purchasing!I have been talking with breeders for a few months now I would never see a pup and just take it.I am more concerned with a dogs temperment and health test the price is what I worry about least.I myself working with dogs for over 15 yrs see so many getting ripped off and lied too when purchasing a puppy.

Joined: 2011-06-21

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Amen! Preach it!

unityspirit's picture
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Joined: 2011-06-23

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I use to raise and breed also I stopped cause I cant follow people home and you cant say they cant lie to you about there situations. I rather rescue or help those who need to place a dog. Its a lot of responsibilty to breed and raise correctly . Did you sell full registration? that says that if you did. you also sold all the puppies that they would breed to other dogs down the line. And what if out of your line they breed to dogs that arent tested or have nothing but " a set of papers on them" I have seen papers even put on dogs so that dont mean you can do right by that idea. its not just the puppies you have but all those as well. Even if they didnt register them its still on going line of puppies.. 

unityspirit's picture
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Joined: 2011-06-23

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 No I didn't really plan on bred if she has a liter when in heat then it happens. Crap happens but letting a dog get bred is a big mistake and not one I would say is a responsible dog owner. I heard this many times in my past sorry it just hit a cord on me. I see so many puppies in shelter even those registered sometimes. And many say "oh my dog just got bred by mistake. 

unityspirit's picture
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Joined: 2011-06-23

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I wont own anything but a Kimbertal. I have had them for over 25 years . I dont understand whats going one with the latest pups of them but Im a fan of the line. I suppose no matter what you like in this life there comes along someone who doesnt like what you like .lol 

bbroyles's picture
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Joined: 2010-09-09

Breeders who mate a vWD carrier are helping to elimate the condition?  I'm not a genetic study, but curious as to how to elimate this, breed it out?

PhilNCaine's picture
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Joined: 2011-03-17

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Hello Barb.

This is what I have leaned about VWD. 

 

There are 3 types of vWD. Type I is the mildest form of the disease and is the type most common in Dobermans. Type 2 is more severe and is more common in German Shorthaired Pointers. Type 3 is the most severe form and is usually found in Scottish Terriers and Shelties. One way to test for Von Willebrand Disease is a blood titre test called Elisa. This test is not very accurate. The only true way to test for this genetic disease is through a DNA test. There are 3 levels of results for the DNA test, clear, carrier or affected. It is safe to breed a vWD clear Doberman with a vWD carrier. It is estimated that the bad gene would be eliminated over a period of 2-3 generations. Breeding 2 Dobermans that are affected (actually suffer excessive bleeding) will always produce 100% affected puppies. Breeding an affected dog with a carrier will result in half the puppies being affected and half being carriers. Breeding 2 carriers of vWD will result in 25% of the pups being affected, 50% will be carriers and 25% will be normal. Breeding a carrier of vWD to a normal Doberman will produce a litter of half carrier puppies and half normal puppies. Why not breed only dogs with no vWD, as affected or carries of the disease? Only 1/3 of Dobermans are normal, meaning they are not affected with, or carrying the disease. Using only normal dogs for breeding would greatly reduce the gene pool which would have a negative impact on the breed.To eliminate 2/3 of the breeding population would result in the same problems we worked to correct.

I just hope I wasn't misinformed