Neuter Question

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Dax's mom's picture
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I am considering having Dax neutered when he is 9 mos old.  I will be moving into a brand new house and I thought it would be best to have him neutered on moving day so I can take care of the move and also just in case he decides to start marking his territory in my new house.  My vet recommeneds waiting until he is a year so the growth plates have closed.

 

Any opinions on this?  I read that the growth plates close between 9 and 12 months.  What exactly would happen if he were neutered before the plates closed? Would he grow taller and not fill out as much?

Katch's picture
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I am no expert, but from my research I decided to fix my puppy 18-24months (take as much for plates to close), unless he starts marking the house, then he will be fixed right away (after 12 months). I honestly think 9months is not enough, you are looking into future problems with hips, etc. 

Dax's mom if your vet said to wait, I'd follow his recommendation.

My opinion on this is that when you neuter a dog you are trading one set of problems for another. The problem you're looking to avoid is not hormonal but behavioral. If Dax is solid with his house rules now, with just a little attention in the new home, he should be just fine there also. If he isn't, neutering will not solve the problem.

Gunny

 

Dax's mom's picture
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Good point.  Yes, he is very well behaved in his potty behaviors.  He definitely knows peeing is for outside.  I think it is bet to wait on the neuter where his overall health is concerned.

Konkie's picture
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Yes if neutered before growth plates close dogs generally grow too tall and don't fill out properly muscle wise from what I have read and been told by breeders.

Also one of the leg bones growth plates closes before the other (im not sure tibia or fibula first) and neutering at the wrong time can cause them not to grow to the right ratios which can then cause cruiciate ligament tears due to the extra strain.

 

I would also wait :) I think the move will probably be stressful enough for you both without having to look after a sick pining puppy.

T-Rex's picture
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Very interesting information. I was told by my vet to bring my Dobie in to nuter between 6-8 months but your comments really make a lot of sense. The only thing is that someone told me that the surgery is much more painful to the dog if you have it done latter vs while he is a puppy. Any comments on that?

At 6-8 months old that puppy is still growing. Growth plates have yet to close and the hormones that come with the so called unnecessary parts are still hard at work defining the structure of the animal. Even though the spay/neuter campaign is a noble and in most cases a necessary cause, mainly because of irresponsible owners there have been plenty of "wives tales" as to why it should be done. The first and foremost reason is that the dog will NOT be able to breed. This is most certainly true but in the case of a male, he'll still be enticed by a female in heat. A spayed female will still mark (yes they do!) her territory. As far as "fixing" bad behaviors? False. This is the one that really get me. If the dog is allowed to get away with bad behaviors you might as well be training him to do it. The key here is training and boundaries not removing body parts. Jax is a intact dominate male who routinely is out on the training field with females in heat. A female going into heat is the reason we have a second place AKC rosette on the wall. His training stopped him from becoming a blithering idiot in the ring, just a sort of idiot. (side bar) The owner of the poodle, judge nor myself knew the dog was going into heat but Jax did! By the time I figured out what was going on we were walking into the ring and of course the judge places the two dogs next to each other. But like I said, training over rode most of his urges. 2nd place.    

As far as pain and the dog? If you made a pain scale for us humans it would be 0 being no pain to 10 being excruciating. Humans 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10. For dogs it more like 0 0 0 0 0 0 7 8 9 10. Around 7 is where the will not want to move around. Jewel (spayed) exploded her CCL. The hind leg would just hang but she still ran around like nothing ever happened. She was spayed at six months before I did my research on this issue. In fact the CCL is what made me look into it. She was around 2 2 1/2 yrs old when this happened I think. If that would have been you or me, we would have been in a wheelchair because of the pain. Dogs don't realize pain like you and I do. So the recovery should be not much different than a puppy. That's if he even realizes it was done.

I'm of the opinion that you're just trading one set of problems for another set.

I'm not advocating NOT getting him neutered, I'm just saying let the dog grow into an adult first and don't do it for the wrong reasons.

Gunny   

Danielleak's picture
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Perfectly put gunny!! Our lex is intact and we never had any problems.  The only marking now lex has done is since bane came.  He has marked over accident spots but with good doberparenting he new really fast that's not ok!! Now he only does it in the outside potty kennel.  Lex has never left the yard to chase a female and also when around one in heat, he boated his training.  I would wait too, better safe then sorry!

I know this thread is old, but I'd also advise people to wait till their male is at least 12 months old to neuter if they are able to do so safely (no risk of breeding an intact bitch in the same home)

I kept my champion male intact for 7 years with not one single leg lift incident - this in a home with intact cycling bitches. 

T-Rex's picture
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Thank you all for the insight on this subject. I have come across such great information on this site and so specific to the breed. This makes such differences in the way I understand the needs of my Dobi. Since Rex is the only dog in the house and he is always supervised around other dogs I see absolutely no need to get him fixed. Thanks to you all Rex gets to keep his very important body parts to himself for a long time:)

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Ps. What really made the difference was hearing how it can hurt his growth. Now that I understand it completely makes sense.  I can see how cutting out such valuable parts can actually cause more harm than good. Thank you again

Sgourle's picture
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I was all set to have Juneau neutered at 5 months per my veterinarian's suggestion until our trainer mentioned this study. It really is very interesting. I understand why a lot of veterinarians support early neuter with the overpopulation, but I definitely backed out. Juneau will most likely be neutered toward the end of this year (18-20 months). I have also never had any problems with leg-lifting or anything like that.

http://news.ucdavis.edu/search/news_detail.lasso?id=10498

 

karie's picture
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what precautions should we take if not knowing all this and have already spayed at 7 mo ? she is 14 mos now .

T-Rex's picture
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Thank you for that link Sgourle very interesting study. I can't believe that the vets don't tell you about the problems you might incounter do to having your dogs fixed so early in their lives. I get the idea of controling the dog population but not informing you on the possible side effects of this so called simple procedure really bothers me. I always heard about many big dog breeds having hip issues now I can see how this could be contributing to this problem. 

Karie for your dog I would recommend the best possible food that you can give her. The type of food that would help her build strong bones and muscle. What you put in to your dog is what you will get back. There is a lot of incredible info on this site on what to feed your baby to give her the best chance for healthy long life. You can't take back what's alread done but you can definitely give her as much nutrition as you possibly can.

karie's picture
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 thanks t rex . right now she is eating 4 cups a day morn / night of totw salmon with two tbsps. of merick can food in morning and salmon oil three times a week .

karie's picture
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t rex do you think thats enough or should i add more protien ?

T-Rex's picture
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Gunny,

Since you are more experienced with this breed can you answer the question from Karie on what you can give your dog as far as food or supplements that would help in building a stronger dog if it has been fixed early?

Thank you

T-Rex