Histiocytoma frustrated

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Bamachick's picture
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Joined: 2011-08-13

Happy holidays to all.  Haven't posted in a while but I'm desperate for help. Bailey has a histiocytoma on her front paw between her toes.  A terrible place to have it removed since no way to stitch or staple. The vet aspirated it a couple of weeks ago and it was benign. Recommended watching it to see if it would regress on its own. Gave oral steroid/antihistamine combo to help with itchiness.  The problem is that even wearing an eCollar Bailey can still lick and nibble on it. It's constantly bleeding and not looking any better.  She has figured out that if she puts the cone on the floor she can push it further up her neck. Tried a baby sock on her foot but that lasted 2 seconds.  Tried putting a second collar under the one holding the eCollar.  It just gets pushed down on her neck where it ends up being tight.  Tried taping cardboard around the edge of eCollar and it freaked her out because it obscured her vision. Just really frustrated.  The eCollar makes her depressed and it's not working anyway.  Wondering what to do next...any ideas to get her to leave it alone? It's an open sore so anti lick sprays and cream are out. Should I get 2nd opinion because my vet is proposing toe removal? Would veterinary dermatologist offer other treatment options? Sorry to vent but I'm worried about my brown eyed girl.  Thanks in advance. 

K-9's What Fun's picture
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Joined: 2014-11-17

That sounds horrid, removing a toe!!:( sorry I don't have any suggestions. Pour puppy!! 

Bamachick, This all I know about histiocytoma;

http://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/skin/c_dg_histiocytoma?page=show

I am certain you've googled everything on the subject by now so I'm no help here. Second opinions are good, waiting may be your best choice?  

I do know this, if you keep using the e-collar the way you are using it you will mess up your dog ("The eCollar makes her depressed and it's not working anyway."). I'm not against e-collars I use them. They're great tools for training but when misused it is just like hitting your dog with a big stick. I would like to see you stop using the e-collar for this. Please don't take this as being snarky because I'm not. I've seen e-collar ruined dogs (2) and it's not pretty and their road to recovery is long and hard.

I'm hoping your dog understands her NO/STOP/LEAVE IT command. That and distraction, redirection and in general try to keep her mind off of it. This would be the better way to go. I've been there with surgeries and know it's not easy but is somewhat possible.

Gunny

P.S.

If your e-collar is not a E-Collar Technologies, Tri-Tronics or a Dogtra throw it away and get one of those brands. The ones they sell at Petsmart or Tractor Supply are cheap and undependable (meaning if you set it on two you could get a ten stim). If you train with an e-collar, you want the best on the market. Also Leerburg has a very good video on the subject. Again, if you train with an e-collar, you want to know how to use it properly. 

 

 

Bamachick's picture
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Joined: 2011-08-13

Sorry, I guess I used the wrong term. The eCollar reference was for Elizabethan plastic cone of shame--- not electronic shock collar.  I have been off work for a week and haven't been successful in getting her to leave it alone.  Today I go to work worried that she will be messing with it all day unsupervised.  ~deep sigh~  Bailey does know "leave it" and "no" but she doesn't always comply. 

Bamachick, please accept my apology for making an assumption. When I see or hear "e-collar" my mind automatically goes to "electronic collar". "Elizabethan collar" never registered.

By the way, I've never had any luck with Elizabethan collars. Every dog I ever had found a way to tear it off of their head sometimes to the detriment of the injury/surgery. Keep in mind that dogs, even our pampered dobes, are pretty tough critters. If it's going to heal, it will. The big question is when.

Again I'm sorry for assuming,

Gunny 

 

Kim
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Joined: 2012-02-05

Kind of a long shot, but do you know anyone who uses essential oils? There are some that are good for healing wounds, and perhaps she wouldn't like the taste of them. (Some are ok to ingest.)

Maybe you can find some info about which ones might be helpful.

Bamachick's picture
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Joined: 2011-08-13

Gunny, No worries. Never would use the electronic variety of collar although I am running out of ideas.  Lol. The last month has been trying because she is such a smart, determined girl! We had a semi break through this morning dabbing bitter Apple spray around the histiocyetoma...she wouldn't lick it. Crossing my fingers we can continue this trend.  Over New Years I'll be able to supervise her and reapply throughout the day...give her a break from the cone of shame.

 

 

Bamachick's picture
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Joined: 2011-08-13

Thanks Kim.  I'll keep the essential oils in mind.  Dobies are wonderful creatures - just too smart at times!  BTW mine was adopted at 9 lbs as a 4 month old miniature pinscher.  85 lbs later there is just so much more to love.

 

Kim
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Cool!  Glad the Bitter Apple is helping. There's another anti-lick called Fooey! - if you're worried about the alcohol in the Bitter Apple stinging, Fooey! doesn't have any.

It tastes horrendous. :-)

My half Dobe girl, Libby, didn't tolerate an E-collar either. She could take one off in 5 seconds. When I attached it to a harness, it took 10 seconds. Clever dogs, they are.

I remember the story about Bailey, still just cracks me up. Min-pin, indeed.  LOL! She's a gorgeous girl!

WNCDobes's picture
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Joined: 2012-04-28

I've heard of other syles of Elizabethan collars that aren't the "cone of shame" type.  They wrap around the neck snugly enough to keep them from bending much.  That might work.   Maybe if you google it you'll find one that is more acceptable to Bailey.  

We've never had a dog that would tolerate an E-collar - the Bitter Apple or the Fooey! worked much better for us.

Roll Tide.

leslieak's picture
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I have used a product called Dermachlor Flush Plus with a lot of success. I used it on hot spots on my cat and I used it when Zooey had a puncture wound on her thigh. I was able to stop using ecollars for both. Hope this helps!

Bamachick's picture
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Joined: 2011-08-13

WNCDobes, Roll Tide Roll.   I've got a Novaguard ordered. It goes on the head but their ears are free and it attaches to the collar. Kind of like a round visor cone. It is clear so vision isn't hindered.  I'm also looking at a Neck Hug, which is a custom made neck pillow that attaches to collar. It comes in a double hug for dogs with long necks. Smaller pillow sewn on the larger one. Pricey but lots of positive testimonials. I feel like I'm buying all these torture devices but I have to find one that will work.  Especially if the toe has to be removed..praying for a better outcome.  Definitely considering the Fooey in case bitter Apple loses its effectiveness.

LeslieAK, I will check into the Dermachlor Flush. Something has to work eventually.  

I really appreciate advice from people who know the breed. I've owned dogs my whole life but the others (dachshund, Irish setter, Boston terriers, min pin) were easier to handle. I love my strong-willed girl! 

 

 

Lady Kate's picture
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Roll Tide ABSOUTELY ROLL!!

Now back to the issue at hand.. er paw.. although I have to say 'Bama is usually the issue around here..especially this week...

When Sofia chased a ferel cat half way up a tree.. ( uh huh.. she did) she broke one of her perfectly manicured nails right down to the quick. It  has to be cauterized to stop the bleeding and of course she was fascinated by the odd look. It didn't match the other eleven and the Diva was not amused.

We took one of my tennis socks, pulled it up pretty high and used adhesive tape pulled pretty tight around her 'ankle' to keep it from slipping.. ( Told her it was a majorette boot... ) Have been trying to find the photo I took.. but I'm afraid photbucket might have eaten it.. no luck

It did the trick..Maybe you can spray the bitter apple on Bailey's sock to keep  her from fussing with it.

So glad your vet did not remove the growth.. It will heal faster and go away in about a week to ten days.. We had one once and treated it with neosporin and hydro cortisone cream.... and a sock..

Good luck and keep us informed..

we'll be watching the Sugar Bowl this weekend.. It'll be a great game!

 

leslieak's picture
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Make sure you try the flush plus because it has lidocaine and bitrex in an antiseptic solution. I think there is a dermachlor flush shampoo but it isn't really what you want for this purpose. It seems a little pricey but it lasts forever. I got it from amazon but vet suppliers carry it too. I luckily remembered it from my young horse days when zooey had her wound. I had one of those flexible ecollars on her that she tolerated but was pretty miserable with it on. Applying the flush plus 3 times a day eliminated the collar. Then using it on my cat with allergies cut down on the prednisone I was giving him. He actually likes it cause the lidocaine soothes the itchiness.

Konkie's picture
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Have you tried vet wrap? It's like a bandage that sticks to itself usually used for horses, it's great stuff though you'd need to change it regularly being on the feet. You can get blow up rubber ring type collars which dobes seem to tolerate more but not sure if this would stop the bending enough. Colloidal silver is great stuff for healing and won't upset  her if she does lick it :) 

Happydance's picture
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Get it taken off.

Bamachick's picture
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Lady Kate - I need to add a pic of Bailey in her Bama jersey. Size 5xl was not easy to find. But she looks fabulous in Crimson and white...unless she's wearing her houndstooth bandana. 

LeslieAK- I've got a call into my vet. Going to see about getting the antiseptic wash and some antibiotics. Precautionary to prevent infection since I know she is licking it while I am at work.  

Konkie - thanks for the suggestions.  I am a little apprehensive to use the Vet wrap. Afraid it would be too tight or that she would eat it.  I looked at the inflatable collars but they are not recommended for paws. She is doing somewhat better when supervised - no cone since I got home from work. Been distracting with new stuffed toys-- stuffed monkey was being unstuffed.  bad monkey!

Happy dance,  I wish it was that easy. The histiocytoma is between her toes. There is nothing there to stitch or staple it closed.  Surgery is the absolute last resort. Not because of money - I'm willing to take her to Auburn Univ if need be.  Removing a toe for a benign tumor seems extreme. 

Lady Kate's picture
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And that's saying a LOT Bamachick...

Any self respecting "Bamachick" who is even vaguely willing to utter; much less TYPE the word Auburn.. truly loves her Bailey/

 

 

 

 

talisin's picture
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Joined: 2011-02-25

ok so is it me or should someone have come up with a "cone" for the feet??? seems like that would work, vets are very good at creating what they need so you might ask your vet to come up with a cone for the foot that way the foot can breathe and air out yet she couldn't chew it???

Worth thinking about if you don't want to remove the toe