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av8rbri's picture
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Joined: 2017-10-01

Hello all. We are new to this forum.

 

We currently have an AKC registered "Red" DOB.

Her name is DUCHESS OF BRIGHTWATER -- or DOB for short. We call her Duchess.  We would possibly like to breed her next year in the spring or in the summer when she will turn 2 y/o.  Is this a good age to breed??

The main thing we would like to know is how healthy she potentially will remain through DNA testing. I say potentially b/c we are not kidding ourselves to say that a 100% clean bill of health is a guarantee of any kind. Just that's it's a better indicator than a bad one...

Where is the best place to get the DNA tests from, and what are the tests to get if looking to breed and provide these tests to a prospective stud owner and or clients looking for DOBIE puppies??  Thx in advance and we will be updating the profile and uploading lots of pics in the future of our baby ;)

glengate's picture
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Joined: 2009-07-22

DNA testing will not tell you how healthy she will be or remain, period. 

There is so much more to breeding than DNA testing.  What about conformation to the breed standard confirmed by showing her?  What about temperament as confirmed by actual temperament evaluations?  What about working ability?  What about her ancestry and their history (same things - in conformation, temperament, working ability and health?  Their longevity?)  Have you researched her pedigree and know what strengths and weaknesses are there?  Do you know what they looked like? Do you know how to improve on faults and weaknesses?   Do you know what they died of?  How long they lived?  What do you have to offer to puppy owners?  Can you truly answer their questions about training?  About grooming?  About health?   About nutrition?  Can you mentor them to be good owners?  Are you able to keep any puppies you can't sell?  Are you able to take back every puppy you produce if their owners can't keep them? 

And do you have thousands of dollars put aside for health testing, stud fee, puppy raising, docking, cropping, vaccinations, microchipping, registrations, supplies, unforeseeable problems, etc?  It's a very real aspect of breeding.  I tell people they should have at least $5000 put aside, and in reality, it should probably be more.   I spent more than that quite a few years ago and only one puppy was born, for example.  So don't be counting on puppy sales to get your money back - it doesn't always happen.  You have to be prepared to lose it, and you also have to consider that dams can be lost having litters. 

With all due respect, your questions are pretty basic.  If you don't know something this basic about the breed (where to go for DNA testing and age for breeding), you are likely very far from being ready to be responsible breeders.  Additionally, if you had purchased her from a responsible breeder, you'd already have a pretty good idea about what some of her DNA results would be based on what her parents' results were. 

av8rbri's picture
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Joined: 2017-10-01

OK. I joined this forum looking to get educated. That's why i asked the DNA questions.

There's a lot more to ensuring good health for dogs and knowing what their projected life could be like. We've already taken many of the steps you mentioned.

But i asked the questions about the DNA because i don't know. I want to get educated not bashed. If i wanted that, i'd join another sponsor funded site, (name withheld) but you could probably guess what ones(s) that is.....

glengate's picture
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Joined: 2009-07-22

Well, there's a lot more knowledge there, quite frankly.  You've got, like, 2 responsible breeders on here, and sometimes I'm not so inclined to help people breed dogs when I really don't know their intentions.  Just being honest. 

I hardly think you were being bashed with my answer, which was informative.  Just not what you wanted to hear. 

Why not tell us what many steps you've taken to prove this dog is breeding material?

Wolfgirl_121's picture
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Joined: 2010-11-08

Pet Profiles

Where did you get her from?

Was the breeder reputable?

Did they do all of the required health/temperament testing on her parents?

Do you have pedigrees going back to at LEAST her great-grandparents?

Do you know how they died?

Are you in contact with the owners of her siblings?

Do you know if any of THEM are dealing with health issues?

Have you shown/worked her and won any sort of title as proof that she is of breeding quality?

Have you gotten her hips and shoulders checked for possible weaknesses?

Has she been Cerf tested for eye issues?

Have you had her professionally temperament tested?

Do you have plenty of money stashed away in case of issues with the litter such as malnutrition or birth defects?

Do you have space in your home to keep any pups that you are unable to find homes for?

Do you have room to take in any of the pups should their owners not be able to keep them?

Is this your first venture into dog breeding?

Do you have all of the necessary tools at home should you need to intervene in the birthing process?

Have you made any concerted effort to get ahold of a RESPONSIBLE breeder to see if they have a stud who they'd be WILLING to breed to your female?

Are you prepared for the possible loss of your dog?

Of the puppies?

Can you tell us what tests/titling you've done with her?

Do you have any sort of proof that you purchased her from a good breeder who does all of the required showing/testing/titling that should be done?

Is having a full AKC registration the only reason you're breeding her? 

 

These are ALL questions that you need to ask yourself and have answers for BEFORE EVER THINKING about breeding, and there are DOZENS more that I can't even ask because I'm not a breeder and don't know all of the logistics, nor do I really want to.

No one is here to bash you, I can promise that, but you need to understand that on a site like this where there are people who are extremely passionate about the breed and about our dogs (all dogs, really), these are things that are going to be brought up and discussed. 

CRDobe's picture
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Joined: 2014-11-06

Pet Profiles

A quick google search will give you plenty of DNA testing options. 

No one is bashing you. I'm on 3 Doberman forums and all of them are extremely adamant about responsible breeding. I'm sure your girl is lovely but so are most Dobes.

What is your specific reason for wanting to breed her?

And as others have said DNA testing in no way guarantees your dog or her offspring will have long healthy lives.

I'm the other "breeder" on here and have not had a litter in over 5 years. No one is being mean here at all - but we are being realistic as to what a responsible breeder does before breeding a litter. If you do less than you should, then you get to become a "BYB" and you only have once chance to make a good impression. I personally had Dobermans for over 15 years before I ever bred a litter. I joined a local Doberman club when I bought my first well bred puppy - mentored with a couple of really good long time breeders for over 5 years before I bred a litter with my second well bred girl - after putting a championship on her & an obedience title.....  doing all the health testing and temperament testing. It is a process and is not cheap. Your responsibility does not end when the puppies go to their homes. It does not end until after they die.... and sometimes those families become friends for life. 

I want people to love their dogs and give them a great life. Thinking that they want a litter from their pet for whatever reason is something that a lot of people think about.... but in 99% of the cases, it is something that should not be acted on. 

While it is nice that you are at least thinking of doing some testing, you really need to ask yourself why you want to breed, and what makes her worthy of being bred..... beyond just being a great family member. As a breeder, you can't be emotional about breeding - it is an art and a science. As much as I LOVE my dogs, I am totally clinical when it comes to thinking of breeding them. I more often than not decide not to breed them..... and some are breed champions. 

eileennellie's picture
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Joined: 2008-04-21

I thought the answers were excellent. Not bashing anyone at all, just being honest and logical. Also very informative. I know nothing about breeding, other than that most people should not be doing it. This sounds like the case here, even to someone who's only had Dobers as companion pets. Bad breeders were the reason I was able to adopt my Dobie, and that's the only positive that I could ever see happening as a result of people's poor choices. Only beacause he was amazing, all issues and problems aside. But not everyone will think love is enough to keep and protect a problematic dog, and then their fate can be horrible.

av8rbri's picture
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Joined: 2017-10-01

Thank you all for the comments. The info you all provided is very helpful, and some of it is new to me.

I was too defensive at first and i'm sorry. 

The main reason I asked about the DNA testing is that I have had differing opinions in the past.

I do know it is not a 100% guarantee that the dog will live a normal healthy life if he or she is NEG. on every test. 

I've had some "experts" (breeders) state that the DNA is everything, and (though i'm not an expert) I respectfully disagreed with said "experts". Most vets have told me it's a crap shoot with the tests.  Others who breed dobies have also told me it tells NOTHING. I just wanted more opinions and reasons why or why not, that's all. I do appreciate the detailed summary on breeding. Thank you.