Bilateral Cryptorchidism?

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SnoopyDobe's picture
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I have had Snoopy now for about 8 weeks now.  I got him from a lady who was living in an apartment with him and said she could not handle him nor have time for him.  She did not give me much info on him other than she had him for about a month.  When I brought him home and to the vet, we were baffled because he had not dropped them yet(testies). well since then we have been to the vet a couple more times,and he is all caught up on shots, but they still have not dropped. The vet told me that surgery would have to be done to prevent cancer in the prostate, which is fine.  I am now wondering when should I get the surgery, because I have heard that if done(fixed)before maturity that it can stunt the growth to full potential.  Is this true?  I was also told wait until he is a year old and then do it.  I am conflicted with this issue, I wish that I could have gotten more info about him, but the lady who had him obviously did not even care to know anything about him herself.  I am happy to have him with us because he is obviously in household where he can flourish in comparison to the life he was going to get with the previous owner.  The vet says that other than being cryptorchid he is a healthy dog, but I need some opinions on whether to wait to neuter him, or get it done ASAP?

rgreen4's picture
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I called a friend of mine who is a breeder and a trained vet tech. Her opinion is that if you do it immediately, he may not reach full stature as it can stunt his growth to a certain amount. There is no overriding emergency to do it immediately unless there are other developments.

Of course by now he should be raising his leg. If not, I would at least wait until he does. If you wait until he is one year old, he will be almost full grown and he should have reached the deep resonance of his bark. There would be nothing to gain and the risk begins to grow once he reaches two years. I would not wait beyond that point.

I hope this helps. BTW - it will not change his character, and he will be just as lovable. You would not want to breed him an any case, because this is an inherited trait and should not be passed on.

SnoopyDobe's picture
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Thanks Rgreen, You have been a great help.  I really like this site, because it is all the info I would ever need about Doberman's.  I had a feeling to wait, but my wife wants to do it right away to prevent cancer.  i told her that it was not a huge emergency and that it just makes them more succeptable to it.  Thanks man for all your help.

rgreen4's picture
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You are welcome. I was unsure at first which is why I called someone who had been trained in the field. Look on the bright side, at least when it is done he won't miss anything unlike Red, my 6 year male who was done last week.

dobesgalore's picture
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One of ours, Coors had one that didn't drop, and our vet said the same thing as yours, about tumers and that it is genetic. When we had Coors neuterd he was a year old. The way our vet explained it, was that the tumer would likely develop "later in life" as hr put it. But at being neuterd at a year old he was fine.

SnoopyDobe's picture
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Well, I am glad to hear that Coors is doing well.  I appriciate that you dropped a comment about this because you have already been through it and know what it is about.  How old is Coors now?  did fixing him at 1 year stunt his growth at all?  About how much does he weigh now?  I just want Snoopy to grow to his full potential and this worried me that he was not going to be a big boy like we had planned.  He is a little under weight now for his age, but I did not want to do so even more ya know?  Thanks for the input.

rgreen4's picture
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That does not affect his body size, but will determine his body shape and nature. Neutering a male dog prior to six months means they will not hike a leg, they will continue to lean forward the rest of their life. Their bark will not deepen as it would otherwise. By one year, a male dog is "mature", but not full sized. He will continue to add about 1 inch or so in height and will bulk out a bit more. A one year old Doberman is roughly equivalent in maturity to a 14-16 year old human.

glengate's picture
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I have been early spaying/neutering my pet puppies while they are being cropped around the age of 9 weeks for 7 years now. 

There is a lot of misinformation being given to you.  I'm sorry, but neutering at an early age has no effect on their bark or whether they lift their legs to pee.  That's just silly.  Neutering doesn't stop time!  It just removes the possibility of producing puppies!  The growth plates do stay open a little longer, and the dogs may grow an extra inch.  They also may not. 

I have a litter that just turned one year old.  One of the males that was neutered when he was 9 weeks old weighs 90 lbs.  His intact brother weighs 70 lbs.  Obviously, it is completely untrue that neutered dogs don't fill out or don't grow or don't mature or can't reach their full potential. 

There is a lot of information out there, both pro and con, on juvenile spays and neuters.  However, your dog is no longer a "juvenile".  Retained testicles can become cancerous, and IMO, the sooner you get that possibility taken care of, the better.  Gosh, even if their bark didn't become "mature", which is worse?  A girly bark?  Or testicular cancer?  I think the choice is pretty clear. 

Q Tip's picture
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I was going to get my pup neutered at six months but the vet advised me to wait until he is at least a year old if possible.  I cant believe he would turn down business in this day and age unless it was something he felt that it was really important to my pup's growth.
Ive never heard of dogs getting spayed at 9 weeks? It doesn't sound right to me.
Ka kite.

glengate's picture
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Google juvenile altering or early spay/neuter.  As I mentioned, there is lots of info out there about it, both pro and con. 

I usually find that older vets are resistant to it because, to them, it's a new idea (although it's really not that new) and they don't want to change. 

However, it is an older vet that crops my puppies and does the early spay/neuters at the same time for me and for several other Doberman breeders in my area.

Obviously, shelters and rescues have the most experience with early spay and neuters since they do it with the numerous puppies and kittens that fill them. 

For me, it's a win/win situation.  The puppy owners don't have the added expense of doing it later.  I don't charge them anything extra for having it done before the puppies go home.  It's amazingly inexpensive anway to do it at the same time as cropping.  The dogs avoid another surgery/anesthetic which is always a risk.  I don't ever have to worry that one of my pet puppies will produce an unwanted litter.  When done as puppies, they rebound/recover incredibly fast.  The incision has one stitch, it's that tiny. 

Q Tip's picture
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Thanks I did google 'age of dogs spaying/neutering' on the new zealand web pages they all seem to recommend 6 months. So maybe its just a no no here. My vet stated that whilst he would neutered a jack russell at six months he wouldnt a larger dog unless it had problems. (my vet is around 30 I guess)
Apart from a bit of flakyness (apparently caused by excess hormones and drops in calcium :) )I'm not having any problems with my pup at 8 months. Never having a boy dog before I was expecting some aggression maybe but Q is the kindest nicest dog ever :)

rgreen4's picture
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Once Q gets over 1 year and if he is around another male and an active female at the same time, you would see some aggression.

I have Red and two male Schnauzers and until Princess got past the 4 month age there was never any aggression. The Schnauzers (including a spayed female) all have ignored Red for 6 years. But, I made the mistake of letting the Schnauzers back in, forgetting that I had not corralled Red and when the males came by Red he went for one. (Princess has not come into season for the first time yet, and she is 8 months old - I don't expect it for about two months, though).

No one got hurt, and Red has since been neutered and the Schnauzer males are scheduled shortly. Not because of this, I just don't want any accidents with Princess. I made the decision on Red before I picked up the Princess in January.

Q Tip's picture
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:) Thanks for that info...It was in Q's papers that he has to be done...so if we can manage a year as the vet recommends that will be great.
Did Red have to have one of those big collar after his op?
I thought i saw another dobie on the shoreline yesterday...looking at the outline I was 100% certain that it was. :)and got so excited.but once we got closer he turned out to be a German pointer with beautiful blue/black markings. I'm sure he is going to be bigger than Q the feet were enormous for a five month old. :)

rgreen4's picture
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No, Red did not have to wear and Elizabethan or E Collar. My vet took the extra time to do internal stitches. I honestly don't know how he did it, but the incision looked like a line. No sign of stitches at all. He licked at it for a few days, but never any blood seepage. I did take him back in about 10 days later for there was some apparent swelling in the empty sack. He pointed out that there could have been some internal blood seepage, but was not concerned. Just over a week later and everything is normal.

Q Tip's picture
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:) . They dont do internal sutures for that procedure at my vets and  I also got told today that once the op is done. No running for ten days...Eeek!
Q still sitting at 34kg which is good.

rgreen4's picture
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I had to keep Red "quiet" for at least 7 days which meant to restrict his activities. Of course that would not have been a problem before Miss Princess arrived, but now? She did not understand why I would walk out with her in the morning to do her business and then put her up and let him out. After about 5 days I relented and let "Uncle" Red out with her but went out to ensure that she did not get him too energized.

Q Tip's picture
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:) Gosh I will have to take a week off, do you think he will be a little less energetic post op? Especially as he wont have those raging hormones floating around? :)

Taken this morning :)

Q Tip's picture
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:) Not at all relevant to dobies, but we also saw a whale this morning  :)

rgreen4's picture
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Wow what a great shot of Q. You really live in a nice area. I doubt that Q's energy level will drop very much. The energy comes from the thyroid as well as testosterone. Red was an intact over weight pad potato and the cause was his thyroid. Now that he is on medication he is lighter and more active. I have not seen a decrease since he was altered.

He may be slightly less aggressive, but that will be it.

Q Tip's picture
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:) Thank you, you are always very kind. :) Have you heard of back packs for dogs? Ive seen them on ebay...Q could then have a job carrying my shells and maybe his water bottle in summer :) He is used to a car harness so it wouldnt be any different.

rgreen4's picture
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I have heard of them and seen them in the ads, but have never seen one used. I have not been hiking in about 20 years (since I left the Blue Ridge Mountains area of Virginia) as there are no real areas around down here. Of course they should only be used on a large powerful dogs (Dobes definitely included).

Q Tip's picture
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:) Hehe I guess he could always take it off if he didnt like it :) America has some awesome national parks I drove across it once...but changing gear with the right hand was so wrong. :)

rgreen4's picture
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Not nearly as wrong as trying to do it with the left hand.  :D

When I was in the Navy and flying off the USS Randolph, we went into St. Thomas, Virgin Islands. Even though they are US, they drive on the left side. We rented a Mini that had the top removed and one of the flat canvas shades put on. We drew straws to see who would draw (there were three of us from the Squadron) and I lost. Every time we came to a corner, the friend who was in the front with me said "Think Left", "Think Left". It was really weird, because the vehicle was set up for US roads with the steering on the left.

A few years ago one of the boys in one of our local troops had a father in the Air Force who had brought a Mini back from Great Britain with him. He said he got more funny looks when he was going somewhere with his kid sitting in the left front, the boy was about 11 at the time.

BTW - you do know that the US started out driving on the left, because that's the way horse drawn carriages did it, because the carriage driver was on the right because of the hand brake.

Q Tip's picture
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:D Hehe you always have great stories to tell.
I didnt know about the horse carriages....why change something if it wasnt broken???

SnoopyDobe's picture
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I think that would be weird and I would probably wreck.  I have been in the US all of my life and learned and always drove on the right side.  It would not be good if this was the case.  especially if the steering was on the right, definatly a crash is going to happen...  by the way that picture is great of Q, and that whale pic is just amazing.  thats really cool.

Ruger's picture
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We have a pack from Ruffwear ( I really like their products) this is a cool pack it has 2 camels packs inside for Ruger to carry his own water plus room for shoes and lots of food and treats.

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I talked to my trainer about a doggy back pack and he said it was a great thing to to for the dog mentally.  It gives the dog a purpose/job (remember these dogs were breed to work).  It also can take more energy from them because they have to carry a little extra weight.

P.S. the spam is really annoying!!!