SearchRe: Justice
I need urgent help and advice
Justice has been doing well with potty training until now. We had a perfect routine. He would remain crated during any periods when he wasn't getting attention and only let out to eat play train and eliminate outside using the key command "outside". Of late he has had a complete turn around. He started peeing in his crate and in the house constantly. On most occasions when I have caught him in the act I have given a sharp no command and ushered him outside while using the command. This has had an undesired effect. Upon hearing the no command, he immediately curls up in a submissive stance tail between legs and runs for shelter under the table or dinning chairs, shaking as if he were a traumatized dog. The result is that he usually finishes eliminating wherever he is as by the time I get to him its too late. I still take him outside to finish but usually he has expelled all his has inside.
Even worse, now I spend a considerable amount of time with him in the courtyard and he refuses to pee. He looks at me nervously as if scared to eliminate . The moment we walk through the door he lets loose! He simply refuses to pee in the Courtyard even though he would in the past run out there on command and do his thing. I even had a key word to induce hi into peeing.. Now he wont pee until i take him outside the house for a short walk. Even then sometimes he doesn't make it that far and lets loose in the communal hallway on route outside.
We had a good routine going until my girlfriend came round for the week with her Pomeranian puppy. She is fully house trained. I noticed Justice had begun to over-bond with her and listens to me less. On occasions when I have given the "outside" command while Justice has been playing with the Pomeranian suspecting that he may need to eliminate he has ignored me and carried on play with the end result of peeing in the house. I have sent my girlfriend and the Pomeranian away until I have this problem sorted.
Justice is a very smart and sensitive dog. I now he can get this right and its up to me to make sure he gets it. I don't want him to be scared of me but I think I have invariably caused that somehow.
Please help. Any useful suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Hi AlphaAdmin
and thanks for the speedy response. Justice is 9.5 weeks old and my first doberman (but not my first dog). I got him at 7 weeks from a reputable show dog breeder. I noticed Justice was very sensitive to verbal correction a few days after I got him and on the recommendation of many users on this site I toned down and lessened my use of the "outside" and "no" commands but never thought to cut it out altogether. I will employ this method of non verbal correction over the next few weeks and let you know how its going.
I do ignore him when we are in the yard but when I do he just walks over to me and sits by my feet. I move away and he follows. This can carry on for up to 20 minutes and he will follow and sit next to me each time I walk away. In the end I feel like Im frustrating him by walking away from him so often. In any event I will be more diligent with ignoring him while outside and practice giving him calm praise when he acts calmly as suggested.
Your advice on stress is invaluable! Thanks. I didn't see it that way. Pity about the Pomeranian and the girlfriend.... already sent them off for a fortnight! Oh well... more time to bond properly with my boy-:).
Thanks for the advice Alpha. I will be in touch with updates.
Henry
lol - 9.5 weeks. Of course then, at that age they don't understand or have control of when they pee. lol At this age, you've just got to accept that, until he matures, he's going to be leaky, and randomly so. For sure, since there's been some stress about it, don't try to 'correct' peeing wherever it is.
You might try looking busy while you wait for him to pee. Are there any other dogs you know that could come over and scent your yard? There are also different things you can buy at the pet store or order that you can scent the yard with that will stimulate him to pee there.
Bottom line, at this age, potty training includes frequent trips outside (a couple times an hour even - for training purposes), light praise for good potties, and no reaction to bad potties. It's not training as much as it is conditioning. Your goal is to have her outside when her little butt starts to tingle and expel urine. She can't be charged with that responsibility yet.
My routine with a new puppy is to count on incidents until they are at least 4 months old. Now, Princess was one of the best and easier on my. When I first let her out of her crate, I would pick her up and take her outside and then put her down. This seems to work and after 28 years with Doberman puppies, I have yet to be peed on.
After she did her business, I would praise her. Usually it was both items. Then it was inside for feeding and when she finished eating I would note the time and 5 minutes later it was back outside. Again it was wait for both to happen and then again praise. When she was loose inside, I would try to stay aware of the time and at the age of 9-11 weeks put her out every hour. I would go out with her and stand there and eventually I would be rewarded, and again praise.
In the rare instance that she had an incident in the house, being an adult with an immature puppy, I recognized it was MY fault. I would pick her up and take her out. If she had more to give, I would then praise her and when we went inside I would just clean it up and not say a word to her. After she had matured a bit, I would simply give her a tsk tsk and not make a big deal of it.
As you have already discovered, Dobermans are very very sensitive and if we over do it when we correct them, they seek shelter from us. The great thing is that 5 minutes later they are back, seeking our affection.
Thanks Alpha. I guess I am expecting a bit too much from the little guy. I will get the girlfriend and the Pomeranian back pronto so she (the Pomeranian :)) can scent the yard. I didn't know you cold buy these from the pet shop! co-incidentally, I tried the looking busy thing when I took him out at 5:30 this morning for his No 2 I just let him roam while I took the clothes of the wire and emptied the bins. He did followed me around for a while. Eventually he stopped following me and just laid down and went to sleep! what a boy! I will persevere with your suggested techniques! Thanks so much for all the advice.
rgreen4, thanks too for the advice. I have also noticed that when I carry Justice outside he never urinates on me! I too blame myself when he pees inside. I consider it a missed chance to train him.nOn the plus side he has never once had an accident with his number two's! I always get him out for that!
Thanks guys! I will keep You updated.
Hi
Just a quick update to say Justice is getting on just fine. Your advice and suggestions really came in handy. We have only had one minor incident in the last 7 days! Justice is a lot less tense when he needs to pee and I am beginning to recognize that he has a particular whimper when he needs to go out. He still refuses to pee in the yard. Last try we were out there for nearly an hr! Then the moment we step foot outside the door onto the street, he goes. Its like clock work I tell you! So I have decided to just take him on the street when he needs to go.
He does go in the yard when I take him out for his first morning pee cos I think he's just bursting to go by then having waited all night. Im trying to get him to understand that its OK to go in the yard as well as on the street so take him to the yard to do his morning pee and try taking him back out there periodically through the day when he needs to go. He usually just sniffs around the yard and eventually I take him out on the street and as I said he pees almost immediately! Am I doing the right thing by giving in and taking him out on the street?
Also Justice has this thing with lifting his paws up. He uses his paws a lot and quite often he will come up to me and tap me with his paw. I have read that this is very dominant behaviour. If so how do I curb it? At the moment i just tut and ignore him but that seems to just excite him. Thanks again. This is a fantastic site!
Hi henry, thanks, and good work.
You might start rewarding with a special treat. Figure out which kind he really likes and only offer it for peeing in the yard, and regular praise for peeing in the street.
I doubt anything Justice does yet is due to dominance. Many Dobermans are active with their paws. It's cute at first, but in my opinion is a bad habit to allow. I've been scratched pretty good before buy happy love-sick Dobermans. Stormee, a female of ours, uses her paws... Add to that, we got her from a home that had trained her to shake - bad idea. I still have trouble with her pawing me when she gets overly excited.
My overall rule is: Don't give affection unless the dog is sitting nicely or laying down - "No paws."
Thanks Alpha. I have already started to practice the no attention unless sitting rule. Im sure he will catch on soon. The tips on tasty treats sounds good too. He is so easy to work with and quick to learn. In 4 weeks he has mastered so many commands. He sits, stays, waits for me to say OK before eating and he wont take a step through a door before me. Today I got him to stay while I placed a treat on each paw for 15 seconds! He's fantastic!
I am having trouble getting him to walk to heal. He just pulls and tugs no matter what I do. I am using a technique I picked up in puppy classes with my girlfriends Pomeranian but I feel a more tailored approach is required for the Doberman puppy. Any tips for getting him to walk to heal? it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks again for all the tips thus far.
Henry
Sorry i meant 'walk to heel'...I don't want miracles from the little guy! :)
Thanks
What I read for this, and at the advice of other members, is everytime dakota tugged, I said No and went the other way. Takes a LOT of patience! She doesn't really pull too much anymore, and she picked up quickly that she can't go where she wants. When she's walking in the right spot, I give her praise, tell her good heel, and tell her how good she's doing. When she's not, I give a simple no. I also tell her heel when we stop, which means to stop and sit. If you stick with it, he'll pick it up quickly.
It was a change in collars that did it for us.. Once Sofia got her brand new royal purple collar, and I started using a short leash, she changed her pulling habit over night..
Mike will run with her... and she knows I can't run as fast or as far as they do, so she'll walk sedately with me... most of the time... still does her show-pony sideways prance sometimes when she's showing off.
It's consistency.... sigh..
Thanks kevin and Lady Kate. I will let you know how it goes
Photo Gallery
AlphaAdmin's AnimalsPet Profiles
Hi henry,
How old is Justice?
I always like to say this when any fear or anxiety is present: Remember never to give affection when a dog is displaying fear or anxiety. You can inadvertently reward/encourage such behavior by validating it.
If your puppy is that sensitive to verbal correction, you certainly need to tone it down or abandon verbal correction entirely for house training. Any time a puppy becomes stressed, only counterproductive things will be learned.
Also, be careful not to 'obsess' over potty-time. When you take him outside, just ignore him and let him sniff around and be a dog for a while. Don't expect him to pee on command if any stress is involved what-so-ever, and if he's hidden under the table and peed - there certainly is. And when he does pee outside, give only calm praise and don't go in right away. Let him sniff around and maybe let of another sprinkle.
Resolution wise, I'd suggest stacking the table in the puppy's favor. Next time you take him out of the kennel (ideally after he's been in there long enough to have some pee) take him straight outside and be prepared to let him be his puppy-self for a while, until he gets around to peeing. Then you can take him inside. If he pees inside - don't get upset and don't use any correction. Just take him outside, and if he is acting normal and not stressed, tell him he's a good boy.
And don't worry about the 'over-bonding' with the Pomeranian puppy. That's perfectly normal when an only-dog has a guest over. Puppies are sensitive to change, so stress or distraction may have caused the initial accident - which cause more stress and more accidents.
Let us know how it goes.