How to learn "Drop It" ?

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99.9% of the time our Sofia is the most well mannered mellow-mama in the world and rarely needs a correction or a prompt to do what's expected.. she sits (when she is asked to) plays dead when she's tired, wouldn't think of jumping on anyone ( that's too strenuous) rarely barks unless it's warranted..and only breaks 'heel' when there's a critter taunting her  ( ie. the hated hare) but......

( you knew it was coming no?)

The other morning, Mike and I were outside with a cup of coffee,watching the sunrise. A bird landed on the fence and within a nano-second, the Diva was up on her feet and snatched the bird right out of the air as it tried to fly away. (Geez that girl can move... she was a blur!!)

Joyous over her victory and the subsequent demise of one of the sneaky mud hauling swallows she has been so diligent in chasing away.. she snapped her mouth shut and all the prying, pleading and "DROP IT's" went to no avail.. Of course she threw her head up into the air and crunched and swallowed the swallow ( isn't that why they're called that?) an odd gleam in her eye.. she then proceeded to track down a wee mouse who was frantically trying to escape... as she spit it out (obviously she prefers poultry) Mike was able to scoop the mangled body off the lawn and toss it.

Soooo my question for any of you still reading ( yawn) how did you teach your Dobe to "Drop it" Now wouldn't that have been easier to say in the first place??? 

Sofia scored highest on Prey Drive  (that fun test Kevin posted) so I know it's instinctual, but I still think it's important for her to learn. Thank all y'all.

Kate

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Hee hee Oh that Diva! Wish I could help- Cisco ignores drop it, leave it, etc. Until I catch him after many circles around tables, chairs etc. or after I am too dizzy to care,  he runs to his crate and then after I stop spinning I can retrieve the whateveritis he has... Raven all I have to do is look at her and she drops whatever she shouldn't have....

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Wow---impressive bird catching skills the Diva has.  The only thing Ziva has ever snatched out of the air was a butterfly, and it didnt have much hope after she got it, either.

I was taught in the Petsmart classes to tell Ziva "drop it" when she has a toy or something valuable to her by offering her a very tasty treat (she is very food motivated) or a toy, to sort of trade off with...but food always was her motivator.  It worked in class, but out in the real world, I didnt always have a little piece of chicken in my pocket, and "drop it" might as well have been a foreign language to her.  I did discover that saying "SPIT IT OUT!" like I really meant it did the trick. 

Maybe 'drop it' just isnt a phrase Sofia likes the sound of. 

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Oh Mandy what an angel child you have in Raven.. and sorry.. just lost the rest of my coffee out my nose... what a picture of you and Cisco with the round de rounds ... I can just see you following him into the crate to retrieve your precious unmentionables....

so HOW did you teach the angel child to drop it?? Are you telling us... she just...does....????

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Katie I am telling SHE JUST DOES. Has from day one- I don't have to say a word- just give her the stink eye and plop right outta her mouth the no-no object comes- Then she runs to you nub a blur and soaks you with doberspit! She is my perfect little angel 99.9% of the time! I don't know where she came from being that she and cisco have same daddy- I guess she is all her mama- From what Lisa says Ladybug is her lover girl and does anything you want her to!

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Paul././ We tried "spit it out" we tried "Let's trade that nasty bird for a nice cookie" we tried prying DoOberjaws apart to no avail.

When Sofia has "captured' something she thinks she's earned.. there's just no way she's going to relinquish it.

Kevin... where are you when I need you???

I'll  bet Dakota would spit it out!

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This is tough because the Diva doesn't like to play.  I taught it to Fancy simply by throwing a toy, she fetched it and returned back to me to throw it for her again.  When she came back I just took it from her and said 'drop it' at the same time and immediately re-threw it for her.  She just loved it. Then, when we weren't playing fetch, I started substituting another toy for the one she was "dropping" so she always got some kind of reward for handing it over.  Now I tell her to drop it (it's usuallly something she shouldn't have and she knows it), she just kinda spews it sideways at me, of course with the "Geez mom" look.  It worked last night when she got interested in a dead bird that Mystic dragged in.  EWWWW  (yes, my old cockatiel is ok....phew).

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When you have a high prey drive dog, and it loves to hunt, the thing to remember is that when it catches that bird, that's the ULTIMATE reward!  That bird is the lamborghini of dog toys, the thousand dollar glass of champaigne.  In those terms, try telling a car fanatic you're going to trade them their brand new lambo for some rusted out chevy (aka treat, or tennis ball) and they're going to look at you like you're nuts.

For a high prey drive dog, imo what becomes more important than drop it is getting them not to run after something.  That's the really hard part!!

I'm sure the diva is very opposed to uncivilized games such as fetch, but if you were able to find something that she DOES like to chase that you have control over, you can then start working on getting her to not only drop, but not chase things she shouldn't.  (I'm thinking stuffed animal attached to a line that you can pull, or better yet have someone else pull to simulate an animal running through the yard, which would no doubt activate her prey drive.  You probably dont' want to start right away with that one though) I have worked very hard on certain commands that have come in VERY handy, such as "wait", "leave it", and working on a foolproof recall.  By foolproof, I mean being able to call a dog off of ANY situation.  And the way that works is by working under a dogs threshold, and constantly upping the ante, at a pace that is comfortable for the dog.  So, leave it and drop it may be easy for things that are not that fun, like a tennis ball.  I also love to mark behaviors that a dog naturally does.  If a dog picks something up, there's really only 2 outcomes... Eventually, the dog drops what it has, or it eats it.  In theory those are the only 2 things that can happen.  So, if you can start to mark when she naturally drops something, I bet that will help a ton.  When she starts to drop the nasty, stankin tennis ball, (she'll probably drop it as soon as it hits her mouth!!) you can mark the behavior, and make a big deal out of drop it.  Once she is consistently doing it, I would start to up the ante, and use something more appealing, but not much more appealing.  You can start to make it harder, and harder, until eventually you're working your way up to the fake animal on the line, with your helpful hubby hiding behind a bush pulling the string.  Dakota was very reactive to people, other dogs, etc.  Not in an aggressive, I'm gonna kill you way, (but that's how it would look to an unaware eye) but in a "wtf, why can't I go say hi" kinda way.  So, I would start far, far away, where she wouldn't react at all.  We would walk up a bit... Once I saw ANY kind of reaction, it could be an intense stare, hackles going up, tail moving position, ears going back...  I took a few steps back.  That was my current threshold.  I would then sit there, and reward every time she looked at the person, place or thing.  (use your imagination, anything that even slightly swayed in the breeze was appropriate lol ) Then, I would take a step, and do the same thing.  When she relaxed, I would go closer, and closer, until eventually we cold walk by with a loose leash, minimal distraction, and go about our business.  Then, I started working in our "watch" command.  Just like it says, when I tell her watch, I'm looking for her to watch me, more specifically, I'm looking for eye contact.  So, by using the commands she already knew, and working them more and more into real, everyday situations that caused her to react innapropriately, she started getting more and more used to listening to those commands under "stressful" conditions.

It was a tremendous amount of work, I literally spent the entire winter working on this, daily, and this is with a dog that learns amazingly fast.  It really does take alot of time, patience, and dedication to train out a dogs instincts.  We're not talking about learning something from scratch, and somethign that your dog naturally does anymore, like sit as an example.  I haven't seen a dog that HATES to sit...  (some don't listen, but not because they hate to sit lol ) But I have seen lots of dogs that HAAATTEEEEE not being able to chase something.  It's in your dogs blood, it's in her genetic makeup, and instinct takes over, so you are now tuned out, and it's almost a waste of time to even try to give a command at that point, because it's almost guaranteed that it will be blown off.  The blinders are on, and all that's going through the mind is "get the bird...get the bird... get the bird... get the bird..."  When that instinctual prey drive kicks in, I dont' care how obedient your dog is, if you haven't practiced, and practiced, and practiced around these types of distractions, your recall will be almost non-existent, and trying to call a dog off will simply not work.  The goal is to lessen the reactivity in those situations, and practice in as close to these situations as you can safely simulate regularly.  When training, use a long lead if you have to, that way you have more control.  With enough practice, she will get it, and our bird friends will be safe.

Now, to lighten it up a bit... Enough talk about all the work, when your dog finally "gets it", what a reward!!!  The other day, there was a bear across the street, and a stray cat ran right down the road, and she didn't move!!!  That's the payout for months of hard work.  Any anyone that has dealt with a very high prey drive dog knows how big that reward is.  So, stick with it, and if you have specific questions about techniques, or ideas, or need some help trying to work through it, let me know, I'd be more than happy to write as much as I can to help you out!!

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Wow, Kev, have you thought about writing a book on this stuff?  Maybe you should!

My tip will seem lame now by comparison, but I was going to add that dogs think it's a game when you chase them around trying to get whatever is in their mouth.  As hard as it was for me, when teaching DROP IT to Dakota I had to resist the urge to make a move to follow her every time she pulled away.  She loves to play fetch and ultimately wants me to throw the toy for her, so I just ignored her until she realized that was no fun and brought the toy back to me.  Then the reward for DROP IT was me throwing her ball/toy/bone so she could chase it.  But if the Diva doesn't go for that interactive play then it wouldn't have the same effect. 

I must say though...catching a bird out of the air?  Now THAT'S talent.  If it was me I'd probably say well, since you worked so hard to get it...enjoy your prize my fair lady!

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Well I have nothing to add except...

Miss Diva my dear how could you put one of those filthy dirty birds in your mouth and even worse you actually ate it?? What were you thinking?!!!! Is this some kind of beauty ritual I don't know about? Do share my friend

Yours truly,
Athena the Goddess

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Dear Athena...

Every Diva knows that Swallow feathers make the softest tuffets and combined with a balanced diet of bird ick and kibble is good for the complexion

Mwha!!

S

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Kevin

thank you so much... The bird episode is definitely our fault.. It is Sofia's job.We taught her to keep the  little beggers off our house . All I would say is " Let's go to work" and she'd listen for the churble of their mud filled mouths and race out of the house, tear around the perimeter and without a sound, leap into the air and chase them away.. So yes, finally catching her Lamborghini wasn't anything she needed to be scolded for... just thinking if I needed to have her drop something valuable.. it might be a good idea to have her trained.. She doesn't take things that she shouldn't so I'm not sure why I'm worried.. the 'stankin tennis ball' just gets flipped in the air and she watches it fall to the ground and looks at us as if we're a little daft.. Love that Dakota just watched the kitty and the bear.. that could have gotten ugly

Sweetpea, I agree, I think Kevin could ( and should) write a training manual.. His hard work and dedication in training his Dakota is amazing and we all can truly learn from him.

Wendy glad your cockatiel is okay.. did you have a jumpstart when you saw the feathers??

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Thanks for the kind words guys, but don't give too much credit.  I'm not doing anything special, there's no secrets, the key is like Kate said.  Hard work and dedication.  Anyone that puts in the effort can have the same results we do with Dakota.  The magic formula is consistency, time, and dedication. 

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Not sure if someone said it but most of the time put another toy or food at her nose. She should drop it. That was the beginning stage of drop it to us. When she does it, reward but not with the toy/food she dropped. 

Laith did the drop it and take it immediately too for awhile. That is when leave it really helped. They are sneaky!! 

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ziva is a beauty !!!!

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Well, thank you so much, etim48.  Ziva says 'thank you', too.

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I'm having a terrible time getting willow to "drop it" an me and others and alsod also getting her to stop jumping on others, also getting her to not get paws on  the counter and table .

 i use Off and No but she still does it , ive also tried a srpay bottle too , the jumping is really getting bad esp due to her size, some times she back chucks me and almost knocks me down !

what else can i try ??? thanks

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Okay my coffee is all over the computer this morning lol. That was a great picture of the Diva and her skills! That girl has some serious talent!! Still chuckling, you have such great writing skills Kate.

When we work the Schutzhund dogsof course they all have very high prey drive and the sleeve is the ultimate reward. They are built up into drive and once they get this sleeve it can be a challenge to get it out of their mouth. Not that you are going to do this with the Diva but the only way I can get the PREY from Romeo's mouth and it is how the schutzhund dogs are started to out the sleeve is to lift him up off the ground by his collar while saying out. Sometimes I also have to grab his flank. I would hate to have our trainers GSD he actually bites when she has to out the sleeve. So worst case scenario if you need to get something out right now you can lift her up off the ground and they do drop it lol.

Kate are you sure you don't want to start a raw diet with her lol! I think she just may like it

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etim:

The command "NO" means nothing to a dog, instead use a command that tell them what to do. 

"Off" is good if it means the same thing everytime.  For us "OFF" means get off the couch or bed. 

If you don't want him jumping on people or you, tell what him what you him to do instead like, "SIT" 

Make sure he does it (always follow through) and only say your command once.  They need to learn to listen to you the first time, not after, "sit...sit... sit.... SIT!"  Follow through can be done by keeping treats or a reward in your pocket and luring him into a sit.  For us, by keeping a tennis ball in our pocket at all times we have taught him to sit for petting.  We raise the tennis ball up, which lures him into a sit.  He is more interested in the tennis ball than people petting him, so no jumping.

I have never had problems with counter surfing, but there is never anything good on there. 

"Drop it" was explained pretty well in this thread earlier.

Hopefully that helps some.