Boomer's training class - the good and the bad

7 replies [Last post]
Joined: 2011-07-20
Posts:
Dobe$: 636

First the good.  Boomer is doing very good!  My husband and I switch back and forth with who works with him during the class on any given week.  Yesterday was my husband's week, so I was observing.  I was such a proud mama!  The instructor also used Boomer as a demo dog once to show the rest of the class how to do something.  She also told us what a great dog he is.  Of course, we know that already.  :)  He seems to really like training, and he's really responsive.  He didn't do so well the first class I guess b/c of the excitement and distraction of other dogs around, but this time he was much better.

So I was feeling all good and happy until we had a problem.  Now first I'll say that the training class really frustrates my husband and I b/c some of the other people in the class just don't follow the rules.  We had an orientation before the class started.  The rules were given verablly, and we all received a manual which explained how the class would work.  So it's against the rules for spectators to walk around the room.  It's against the rules for people to walk their dogs around the room and allow them to greet other dogs and people.  If children are in the audience, they are suppsoed to remain quiet and sit still.  These rules are broken to varying degrees throughout the class.  So yesterday, there were 2 young children in the audience without an adult.  I guess the older one was between 6 and 8 and the younger one between 3 and 5.  Their mom was training a dog.  Well, the two of them walked by Boomer and my husband to get to the bathroom, which is in the next room over, and Boomer barked and growled at them.     It sounded so mean and snarly too.  I don't know how to feel about it.  On one hand I feel really awful that it happened and am embarrassed to face the mother.  On the other hand, I'm not happy that the kids were walking around the room by themselves b/c it states in the manual that they aren't supposed to be.  The mom, kids, and her dog left the class early, either b/c the kids were upset, the mom was mad that the instructor kind of called her out for not having another adult there, or b/c the class ran a bit late. 

There was another kid in the audience, sitting next to me with his grandfather, watching his grandmother train her dog.  I overheard the kid tell the instructor that the grandma's dog had bitten him twice.  Near the very end of the class, the grandmother came up to the grandson (yes, walking into the audience with ehr dog, past all the other dogs) and said "Stay away from that Doberman.  He doesn't like children."  Then another lady came up with her dog, and I guess tried to soften it a little, and said "It's not that he doesn't like children.  He's afraid of them."  I was sitting right there!  I don't know if the grandma didn't know I was with Boomer or purposely wanted to make me feel bad.  I really wanted to say, "Boomer has never bitten anyone, but your little yappy dog has bitten your grandson twice."  Not that I blame the dog.  The grandfather was letting the kid go up to the dog during the class, and he was annoying the dog, picking up her back legs, bothering her etc.

So what do you guys think?  Boomer has never barked or growled at a child before, but he is not around them often.  He has met my husband's friend's daughter and a couple kids at the dog park.  Then again those kids all had good dog manners.  I know it's not realistic to expect all kids to be like that.  In fact I know I'll have to make sure certain friends' kids understand that he's a different dog than Clyde, who didn't mind kids walking right up and petting him.

Thanks to anyone who read this far!  I just wish people would follow the rules.  They are there for a reason, and the reasons were explained to everyone.  Ugh.

HarleyBear's picture
User is online Online
Joined: 2011-08-17
Posts:
Dobe$: 1750

Pet Profiles

Harley barks at everyone at first, I put him in a sit and if he is comfortable then I let people pet him and give him treats.  He has also never bitten anyone.

He has always been scared of children.  He won't go near them.  But, if a child is calm and kneels down with a treat he may accept the treat then retreat behind my legs.  It also helps if the child rolls one over to him.  I don't believe in pushing a dog past their limits and those children, breaking the rules, were pushing him.  I am glad the instructor stood up for you guys.

If I may suggest, maybe do some walks in the park and keep some distance from the kids.  Just so he can hear them and see them.  Get him used to all that moment!  Always be mindful of his non-verbal signals.  We do this daily and I think it has helped a little.

It sounds like he is doing so well in Obediance and I am sure that will help too.  You must be so proud of him!

I am in the same boat as you, so keep us updated, I am sure we can learn something from each other.

Ziva's Dad's picture
User offline. Last seen 19 min 56 sec ago. Offline
Joined: 2010-10-04
Posts:
Dobe$: 4468

Pet Profiles

I can relate to your class room story somewhat.  When I had Ziva in Intermediate classes at Petsmart, there was one lady that had an unruly little beagle dog and also brought her 3 yr old grand daughter with her to classes. This was an 'overly permissive' grandmother, who never seemed to notice anything that the child did, no matter how loud or disruptive she was.  While we were all concentrating on getting new commands drilled into our dogs, this child was dumping a tote bag full of toys out into the middle of the class area to play with.  At one point, she even dumped a big jar of GLITTER into the floor.  Did grandma say anything or even attempt to clean up the mess?  Heck no.  Our instructor had to stop class and sweep up the mess this little girl was making.  At least our dogs learned to work around distractions, because that was the most distracting kid I had ever seen!

We dont have small kids in our family and Ziva didnt grow up around toddlers, so she was very scared of them for the longest time.  She never growled or snapped at a small child, but if they started to approach her, she would begin backing up or moving sideways trying to avoid them at all costs.  Over the past year or so I've tried to address her fear of small kids, without pushing her into an uncomfortable situation,  and when we encounter one or more, I have her sit while still at a distance to them, ask the child to stop moving towards her and just extend their arm and keep their hand in a fist, so that all tiny fingers are drawn in and protected.  I tell them to just stand there, very still, and let Ziva come to them and sniff them.....it's the 'sniff test' and if they pass, it means they are "a very cool kid".  LOL   Works for us.  Ziva will now cautiously approach a toddler, sniff them and allow them to touch her before moving away.  Baby steps, but it's in a positive way.

Joined: 2011-08-10
Posts:
Dobe$: 308

Pet Profiles

Sounds like the older woman was correct by saying your dog was afraid!! Well afraid isn't the best word he may have been startled, also dogs in general are cautious around active kids. Kids have a sense of awkwardness that dogs don't read well and often times will bark at them to go away. Your pup took it one step further with the growling however that might mean he was afraid not just unsure about the kids. What did your husband do when the dog growled? What did the trainer say to do? Von

 

oh yeah as far as the rules go it sounds like a bunch of good distraction to train with.

glengate's picture
User offline. Last seen 2 weeks 2 hours ago. Offline
Joined: 2009-07-22
Posts:
Dobe$: 966

While the rules may call for people to not walk around, it's not exactly being unreasonable to walk to the washroom, and it's also not unreasonable for anyone to simply walk by your dog.  Boomer's reaction was wrong, and it shows that you've got some work to do.  "Rules" get broken in life every day so you've got to prepare your dog for that.  As Von said, distractions in training situations are a good thing so long as you know what to do.  Did you talk to the instructor about his reaction and what you should do?

Joined: 2011-07-20
Posts:
Dobe$: 636

I haven't talked to the instructor yet.  I'm going to call her this week before the next class.  I understand about training through distractions, and I know Boomer's reaction was wrong, but also, this was the 2nd class of a beginning obedience class, so I also think the rules are a good idea.  Why make it harder on dogs and owners who have no obediance foundation?  That's the way I interpreted the way our instructor explained the rules to us.

I'm not completely sure what my husband did after the barking.  It's a bit of a blur.  Boomer was on his left on a mat where the dog is suppsoed to lay while the instructor is talking.  He might have been sitting instead of in the down position.  I'm not sure b/c I wasn't looking in their direction until I heard the bark.  My husband was holding the leash.  The kids approached on the right side, and Boomer barked, and I think my husband said no and pulled on the leash probably and got Boomer into a down on the mat.  Then the instructor had us move to the other side of the room so when the kids came back, they wouldn't have to walk past Boomer.  I will have to ask my husband exactly what he did.

jeshykai's picture
User offline. Last seen 3 weeks 3 days ago. Offline
Joined: 2010-09-02
Posts:
Dobe$: 3390

Pet Profiles

Since you're in the class setting and there are children, I think that's a wonderful opportunity for you and Boomer to work on his kid aversion.  Some dogs, when not socialized with kids, will often feel insecure around them.  It's not hard to see why.  Kids run really fast, fall, are loud and basically aren't as steady seeming as adults.

I'd ask your trainer how she'd approach Boomer's reaction in the next class and maybe the kids will be able to be included in the session.

I alwyas work really hard on exposing my dogs to all situations and think in this case, you're a step ahead -- there are kids around you can work with.  Sometimes people don't have that when they are trying to work their dogs into being okay - even if not 100% comfortable - with kids.

glengate's picture
User offline. Last seen 2 weeks 2 hours ago. Offline
Joined: 2009-07-22
Posts:
Dobe$: 966

You seem a little hung up on the "rules".  It sounds like children had to go to the washroom.  They do that!  You really can't fault someone for having to go to the washroom!  You didn't say they were running or being noisy or obnoxious.  They just walked by your dog on the way to the washroom.  I understand that rules are good and fine, but bladders don't!  ;-)