SearchNeed advice about still purchasing a pup with minor medical issue
I have a question. The breeder contacted me yesterday and said one of Andre's littermates pulled the tape off Andre's ears a couple weeks ago and it ripped the hair out on his head by the base of his ear leaving a scab. The scab is gone and now there is a bald spot that has some pimples and the breeder took him to the vet today to see if he needs an anti-biotic incase it is infected. She said his ears are healed and ok and they are still posting them. The breeder said she thinks he's having a reaction to the adhesive in the tape as well.
My previous medical experience tells me that if there was any scare tissue that formed in the bald spot the hair will more than likely not grow back meaning he could have a bald spot there the rest of his life. I still want him even if he will have a bald spot the rest of his life, but $1500 is a lot to pay for a dog that is going to possibly have an ugly scar/bald spot for the rest of his life and if he is having a reaction to the tape adhesive this possibly means his ears can't be posted until the reaction is cleared up meaning his ears may never stand.
My question is this: In an instance such as this would it be proper or improper for me to ask if the breeder would lower his price? Would any of you still be willing to pay this much for a puppy in this condition? I still want him because this would be a cosmetic issue only and would not affect his temperament or personality, but at the same time I still think considering his price, his physical looks are somewhat important too. I would really like some advice before we go to pick him up on Sunday.
Thanks guys!
I realize I'm paying for overall conformation among other things and its not just a "little tuft of fur". When you buy a brand new car you expect it to be perfect. No one would pay full price for a brand new car that had a noticeable scratch or spot of missing paint. The dealer even knows this and lowers the price. If you think I'm being petty then I guess that is your opinion, but $1,500 is a significant amount of money to me an I expect a lot for that money.
Thanks for the link Sir-Phin. I know there are alternative tapes. We don't have him yet. He is still with the breeder and she is the one posting his ears.
I better put the shields up. I feel a fall-out coming.
I understand where you're coming from K-Tron, but at the same time I understand where Sir-Phin is coming from too. I think that's a tricky question, maybe one of our resident breeders have some imput on this one. Some advice from 'the other side' so to speak. IMO though I wouldn't expect much to come off the price....if any at all, simply because he is still a very healthy pup with good parentage and when you add up the expenses they have put into him they most probably aren't making much of a profit as it is.
But as I said I can def understand your dissapointment. I hope this gets resolved soon. sending good dobervibes!
No offense meant with this response but I don't think as a breeder I would discount anything off of the price for something cosmetic such as that. You are not buying a car you are buying a pet puppy. I think if you are buying a puppy from well bred, health tested lines than 1500 is a very fair price for a pet with the ears cropped.
I know with my last litter we didn't make a dime from the litter in fact quite the opposite I'm still paying it off over 2 years later. You dont know for sure that the hair wont grow back. I think a key point right now to ponder is... if it is something that bothers you this much now that you think a discount is in order then I would assume if the hair didn't grow back you wouldn't be happy later even if they honored a cheaper price.
Did the breeder send you a photo?
I think the chances are extremely good that the hair will grow back and this is a complete non-issue.
Yes the breeder sent me a photo. I realize I'm not buying a car, but I don't see how the principle is any different. Even the breeder said she doesn't like the spot because its ugly. I know you are looking at this from the breeder's perspective and I can certainly understand that and the points you make, but look at it from the buyers perspective too. I'm spending a lot of money on this pup, pet quality or not. Yes its cosmetic and maybe you feel that is trivial....well nevermind, I don't want to argue and upset or offend people. That's not what I came here for. Thank you for your input rnddobermans. I do respect you and your position and your opinion. I just feel differently I guess. I'm not offended, but feel like my feelings/perspective as a buyer have not been taken into consideration.
Thanks Luke_Sian for understanding where I'm coming and thanks for the good dobervibes 
I shall be much more careful what kind of questions I ask in the future.
If I were paying that much money for a doberman, I would be just as bothered as you by the whole situation.
But you're wasting time and energy worrying about something that may not even exist in the future.
I wouldn't ask for a lower price. I think that's a pretty minor detail in the overall scheme, and has nothing to do with the pups temperament or conformation, which are infinitely more important. Plus you don't know that the hair won't grow back. Even if it doesn't, are you gonna love your pup less because of a little scar? Come on. Buying a living, breathing family member is completely different from buying a car, and $1500 is more than reasonable for a quality doberman as it is. I think you're making a big deal out of nothing.
Hey,
If your not showing him than probably not to big of a worry. Also, it will probably grow in anyways.
Kaiser was allergic to the tape and we had a heck of time with infections and he is prefect now with great ears. The Vet was awesome.. She did my postings every week sometimes twice a week so she could make sure he was ok. My point is you can't always anticipate what will be, after what I spent there was no guarantee that his ears would stand. ; ) but they did.. And his fur all grew in where the skin had been irritated. I felt so bad for him, I actually cried.
It is your money, but you can't always anticipate what will be. Good luck!
Mary
To be perfectly honest with you, this is fur that is missing. Fur grows back. I can tell you have I seen all levels of infection, all levels of baldness, have cleaned them, clipped them, watched them heal. This sounds like such a minor thing that I'm kind of surprised you are worried about it...? How much medical experience do you have? Scar tissue from a bit of tape pulling out fur and a reaction from it? Unlikely.
If you are already concerned about the price of your dog and his "defect" maybe you should just tell your breeder you don't want the dog anymore. What's going to happen if he develops other cosmetic issues? You have the dog for it's entire life. There will be times when they are not looking perfect, either because of medical issues, skin issues, etc. You will spend money on keeping him safe, fed, vaccinated, etc. You can't expect discounts for a dog like you would a dinged bumper on a car. You wouldn't ask your mechanic to cut his labor time in half if he was fixing your engine, either.
Our Sasha got injured when the Dam cleaned her after birth. She was blind on one eye! I honestly did not care at all when the breeder told us! She ended up being the best dog I ever owned :) We did get her for less than her littermates! Not like you can compare a blind eye with some missing fur, but the breeder put more money into our dog than what we ended up paying for her.
I can fully understand your worry and wanting some compensation for "damage" to your otherwise Perfect puppy. That said I think I would maybe try a different approach, you don't know whether this will be a problem or not, if it is NOT a problem then you haven't offended the breeder and you are a happy puppy parent, however if this happens to have started an issue with the ear or skin in that area you could have trouble in the future with skin issues and some vet bills; IF and that's a huge IF that were to happen maybe you could ask the breeder at that time to help you with vet costs?? maybe??? since you could prove that it was as a result of this incident then I would think the breeder might be willing to help a bit with the fees that might result from this injury and I am sure it would be SMALL but at least you would feel they recognized the issue. I know when I adopted Ben I thought I was ONLY getting a dog with skin allergies that required a shot once a week I ended up getting a dog with severe immune disease that is costing me $400 a month in meds not to mention the specialist fees every other week; so I contacted the rescue and asked during one of my short money months if they would be willing to contribute ANYTHING to his medical costs and all I got was truthfully "oh I'm sorry that has happened" yet they agreed to take him back due to his medical issues if I didn't want him, that would cost them more than just say $50 as a goodwill thing. So I understand you would like a "goodwill" sorry let me make an adjustment type thing, but it may be worry for naught so wait until it becomes an issue and then contact the breeder and be prepared for - it's not my problem - type of answer. Don't create a problem where they may not be one but be prepared to let the breeder know if it doesn't clear up or creates a new problem later on and use discretion on the time frame - if an issue doesn't develop until much later into parenthood, then let it go, but if it never clears up and you are in and out of the vets office the minute you get your dog then let the breeder know. Just a suggestion.
Have you ever ripped a bandage off of yourself and taken hair with it? Did it grow back? Just, on a stretch, that the breeder gave you a "discount", would you pay it back if and when the hair grows back in?
@jeshykai: Do not judge me. You know nothing about me. I have 5 years vet tech experience and I have seen hair not regrow mant times as a result of infection and scarring. According to the breeder and the pics she sent me, the tape pulled the hair out taking skin with it. Which of course caused it to bleed and form a scab. The skin has healed now but there is no hair and the breeder said the skin is "bumpy and has some pimples". How much medical experience do you have that you would not know that this is quite possiblly a permanent bald spot and that there may be remaining infection?? Fur does not always grow back. Many times, yes, it does.
Wow, whatever, I don't owe you an explaination and I don't appreciate your lack of respect. It sure gets catty around here quick. I'm outta here......
Don't run off just yet. I also have seen issues where the hair never grows back. This doesn't sound like a blemish which may be why you have gotten some of the answers you have; it sounds kinda large and if it took that much skin it sounds kinda serious. I hope that your puppy doesn't have any issues as a result of this. That's a sensitive area and alot of times sensitive areas don't need alot of trauma to cause hair loss permanently. check out my response above for my suggestion.
Keep us posted on how he does.
Now I know that I am very new here, and still waiting to get my doberman, but I really felt like I needed to say something. I can see both sides of this arguement.
On the breeders side of it, this is just a cosmetic flaw, and honestly has nothing to do with Andre's health, temperment and conformation, nor his ability to be a wonderful addition to your family. Also, I understand that they do not want to take any money off the cost of him, because you are buying him for his temperment, conformation and health, and with him coming from a proven line you are fairly certain of these facts. Based on everything I have read most reputable breeders only break even or only show a small profit for their litters, and that may be playing a part in why they don't want to cut the cost
However, after re-reading your OP, and talking with my husband about your situation, we definately see your side as well. Not only are you worrying about whether or not Andre's fur will grow back, but whether or not he is having an allergic reaction to the tape, and if his ears will be able to stand after all of the trauma and following infection. I'm not sure if you will get any money taken off of his cost, but I think that if you are going to pay for a pup, doberman or not, you should get the pup you want for you and your family. How big is the spot on him? Has the breeder sent you any more pics to let you see how he is healing up?
Like I said I am new to forum, and I am certainly not trying to ruffle any feathers, or mean any disrespect to anyone. Having said that, my personal opinion on the situation is that I would be upset as well, I personally would still take the pup, mainly because he was the one I chose and really wanted to bring into my family, on the same token I get attached very quickly and am personally more concerned with my pup's health, temperment, and conformation than anything else. Not saying I'm not concerned with appearance, because I am, but I don't think a bald spot is that big of a deal. The pup could do something after I get him that could have potentially caused a bald spot. I could live with a bald spot and the possiblity of floppy ears. Now, my husband on the other hand said he completely understands where you are coming from. He wouldn't want to pay full price for a pup that not only may have a bald spot, but may have floppy ears due to the injury. In his opinion, you are paying for a pup that is supposed to be in prime condition and the fact that you are paying for the ear crop and it may not even take, is bothersome to my husband. His thought is that, he would pay for the pup on the condition that if the fur didn't grow back and/or if his ear crop didn't take that he would be reimbursed for that part of the pup's cost.
I hope you understand what I am trying to say, and I know you have a difficult decision to make, and I don't envy you that. I hope that everything turns out the best way for you, your family and Andre. Good luck and hope to hear updates on how Andre is doing!!
you have already made your mind up.
It's just a little hair, sure it may not grow back, but are you going to love him any less?? Sure, his ears may end up not standing, but does that mean he's gonna become a killer or go deaf? He is a dog. He doesn't see anything wrong with himself, so you should just love him, it doesn't matter what he looks like. As for a discount... are you crazy?? Do you know how much money a breeder puts into each litter? Why would they give anyone a discount on a pup because of a little hair loss that isn't going to affect the pup's health AT ALL??? A bald spot wont make him any less of a Doberman... neither will his ears not standing.
I have gone back to this many times and wrote and deleted many times. I think it is a shame that you came on here asking for advice about still purchasing a puppy with a mild medical problem as you put it and when people gave you suggestions or advice you took it out of context and were a tad rude yourself such as your response to Jes. I don't think her post was bad or meant to be negative to you at all, neither was mine. I was trying to show you from a breeders prospective if indeed this was a well bred litter from a responsible breeder that has gone out of her way to do everything right, then some missing hair that may grow back is just minor...Compare this to backyard breeders and what you get.
Maybe what you really wanted in hind site was not advice like you asked for but someone to just listen and agree with you most did and a few see the value in the dog and what goes into producing a litter.
For 15 years I bought kennel-bred Dobes. They were incredible, like ALL Dobes. Then I decided to rescue one. I never bought another Dobe after that. For the past 15 years I have rescued all my Dobes and they have been healthier--lots healthier--than any of my breeder-bought dogs. And with all these dogs needing a home, why the hell would someone pay $2500 for a puppy from a breeder when you can get a purebred Dobe for $200?
My first breeder-bought Dobe died at 9 of kidney failure and my second one died of cardio-myopathy at 7. My current Dobie Rescue dog, Rama, is 12 and getting old, but doing fine.
Think about how many Dobes' lives you could save with $1500 - $2700. The California Dobie Rescue network asks $250 tops. Think about it. The Dobies are watching us. When we die, they meet us at the pearly gates and fill out our report cards.
The Michigan rescue is $250 - $400 depending on the age of the dober dog. The money goes to very good and underfunded cause btw. All dogs are checked for behavior, given shots, and sterilzed.
Didn't mean to hijack the thread, but Ramakrishna had a good point and I keep meaning to help promote rescuing dogs. It's a personal decision weather you adopt from a Breeder or Rescue one. I just think a lot of people forget about the rescue option.
I totally agree with helping out with rescue dogs. I'm involved with it in my area and have helped place many. I wouldn't go so far to say that they live longer and are healthier by any means though.
Don't put down buying a dog from a reputable breeder. I plan on rescuing my doberman, but for some people, they either cannot do that or don't want to. Why make them feel guilty, because they made the choice that is right for their family? Promoting rescue groups and rescue Dobies is not bad at all, but this person has made her decision and is seeking advice. Don't judge her for that.
If I were a breeder and someone even asked me for a discount because of a little missing hair I can guarrentee they wouldn't be taking home a dog of mine. You are paying for health testing, blood lines and temperment.
Trying to compare this to buying a car shows how unattached you truly are to this dog. That dear puppy has become just a item to purchase...and it's imperfect at that. This is just sad.....
Like rnddoberman, I have come here and typed out a reply, deleted, retyped and redeleted.
The conclusion I have come to is this, don't ask for opinions if you're going to be offended by the ones that you get in reply to your question, it's not really a medical issue, he doesn't have any birth defects that are going to hinder him from having a happy healthy life.
thank you Lori and Sir-Phin!
For me, this woudl be a non-issue, especailly on a pet quality pup. If I was looking for a show prospect, and was hoping to put titles on my dog, I MAY think it over, but would likely still be a non-issue. I think comparing a dog to a car is quite silly, but you're entitled to your opinion. When you ask questions on a public forum, don't expect everyone to agree, but I think the vast majority of people that you were to ask on any forum, specifically in regards to a pet dog wouldn't be concerned about a patch of hair like that.
5 years experience and you seriously asked this question?
I love how easy it is to make up things on the Internet.
When Red had a malignant tumor on the top center portion of his tail and it was removed, he had a scar that was approximately 1" long and 1/2" wide after the surgery to remove the tumor. Then after the scab came off, it looked different (to the point I was afraid the tumor was coming back). But after about 9 months, if you didn't know he had the problem, you couldn't tell it, as there was just a small crease in the fur.
All scars tend to shrink and fade with time.
When I had a litter and one pup had an infection on his ear after cropping (the littermates would not leave him alone) I cut the price to a family to next to nothing. Not because there was anything really wrong with the pup, he just needed relief from his littermates, but because I had a lot of pups to place and the family didn't have a lot of money. I could tell from meeting with them that they would give him a good home and made my decision on that point. Of all the puppies in that litter, I had futher contact with only three. That one, as they would send me updates on him as he grew, my later sister's pup and the pup I sold to a very good friend with whom I had constant contact.
I can see both sides of this one and in the original post the remark was a sizable chunk of skin was also missing not just hair but skin - that makes a difference to me in answering the question.
I do like the idea of rescuing since its all I have ever done, :)) and Ben is such a blessing but I do have a dober girl on waitlist at a breeder right now (October 2012) she would be my first purchase and I hesitate to not rescue so I will have to come to terms with that very soon so I can let the breeder know. With that said I know how I would feel if my little girl were injured and I was unsure what medical issues might ensue as a result; just offering to be of any assistance should an issue arise would be sufficient for me. I don't think the original question was out of line and I believe the poster was doing just that - trying to get an objective opinion of the subject - not complaining about a little hair but seriously wanting to know what protocol was in this case, I feel bad that the poster got pretty heated responses about alittle "missing hair" when it really was more serious than that, he was just seeking advice.
some answers were very helpful but others were chastizing and I know this group and dearly love this forum and it just surprised me there was less advice and more upset, seemed out of character for this forum. I hope this person comes back so we can all enjoy watching the little one grow up and see pics.....
I havnt ever posted this picture as its very distressing for me to see. But this is of Q after an attack by a pig dog. You can clearly see the puncture marks. His neck was shaved by the vets
And this is of Q just last month when we did an animal welfare collection day. I just wanted to show you how well he healed. 
I didnt put any creams on his neck, his sister did lick it a lot :)
"5 years experience and you seriously asked this question?
I love how easy it is to make up things on the Internet."
@Jeshykai: Wow so are you accusing me of lying? What exactly am I making up?? How dare you! Like I said, you know nothing about me and I am not making anything up!!!!!!!!!!!! If you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all!
Thank you talisin, for getting it and understanding the whole point of the post.
I came back and re-read my post... it was pretty harsh, and I apologize for that. I would still get the pup... if there is infection, get rid of the infection. I wouldn't ask for a discount, because I would personally see it as just a bald spot. He's a dog... He doesn't care what he looks like. He will still give you all the love he can possibly muster.
Oh poor Q!! That really looks like it hurt. Lucky he lived through that.
again I reread everything it was just a protocol question it wasn't even about not getting andre' just protocol.
I think we should welcome Andre and K-Tron to the family and look forward to seeing andre's pic as he grows and learns and goes through the leggy stage and all, so I will be first:
Welcome to the forum K-Tron and do post pics of Andre' Uncle Ben says HI!!!
precisely what I shared...what my protocol as a breeder would be that gives all into her litter.
Welcome K-Tron
Poor Q that would have been awful to watch your baby go through.
I just have to say rnddoberman I love your picture!! One beautiful dog, I always love to see when you post cause that picture just draws me in. I'm trying to change my picture and can't for some reason.
I can't imagine what Q went through that is terrible. I know I feel horrible every time I think of how Goofy my collie was bit in the face and then died and I had another collie that a dog ripped his throat and down his front leg very jagged and brutal but those puncture wounds look terrible. Poor baby.
Ok, so I just wanted to bring some closure to this thread. Quite frankly, I wish I would have never brought it up here. I will definitely be more careful in what questions I ask in the future.
This situation has thankfully been resolved. I did share my concerns with the breeder and she was most helpful and understanding as she had the same concerns I did. She took Andre to the vet before allowing him to come home with us and the vet feels that most, if not all, the hair will regrow and the ears will eventually stand if we are consistent with keeping them posted. So, we were all happy to hear good news.
I appreciate the diversity here on GD and everyone has different views on things and that's ok, but yes, some of your comments hurt my feelings, especially when my experience is questioned (I don't make things up on the Internet!) and made me feel like I was some horrible person for wanting my pup to be healthly AND look good. The breeder put those feelings to rest when she shared my same concerns.
I hope we can all just move on. Someone said that comments can be taken wrong on the Internet because you can't see expression and gesture, or hear tone of voice and they are right, which is why I feel it's important to try to make sure we choose our words carefully. I do apologize if I misinterpreted some of your comments.
I am glad to hear you got it resolved and that you and the breeder are pleased with the outcome.
I also think, with all due respect, that if you are going to ask for advice on the internet you need to get a thicker skin. I can appreciate that you are honest in your posts, as am I, but you can't expect total strangers to assume that, especially as a relative newcomer to the forum. Jeshykai has been a vet tech for a long time so if what you wrote contradicts her experience she has the right to question it. I'm not saying your experience isn't valid but you have to see it from her point of view too. I think in general this forum is pretty well mannered. If you don't agree with a reply you've received that's fine, but you asked for personal opinions and for the most part that is what you got. Maybe a few of the posts could have been worded more gently, but I still don't think they warranted a freak out. In general the posters who have been here for a while do choose their words carefully, but no one is perfect. And yes of course we can and will move on. :)
Well said Sweetpea.
Glad everything worked out.
Yayay Andre' is going to be fine, such good news. His face is adorable. I did read about your other dober and what a story, so glad that you rescued him from that sorry way of life, a handsome dog he was too!!!
Can't wait to see more pics of Andre' - It's always good when things work out for both sides of a situation.
So glad Andre is finally home! He is adorable by the way! I think I love him 
Pet Profiles
There are other things that you can use in place of the adhesive to post his ears, like medical adhesive used for ostomy bags.
http://www.allegromedical.com/ostomy-supplies-c529/skin-bond-latex-adhes...
Try different tape, his ears will stand, you just have to be creative in the posting.
You're paying for the puppy, and his overall conformation is more important than a little tuft of fur at the base of his ear that may or may not grow back.