SearchMeet "D J"
How often does an opportunity come along where someone gets a puppy from the breeder your own dog came from, and they even have the same mother, and THEN this person decides that after they paid full price for the pup and got her home, the stress of a 2 yr old toddler, a 10-week old doberman puppy AND the fact that they just found out that they are preg w/ twins (they didnt know it until the day after they brought the puppy home), so they offer you the puppy at a fraction of the cost they just paid, AKC registration papers and all? Sounds like destiny to me.....so this little girl's new name is Destiny Jane----or DJ for short. She is 10 weeks old and we just brought her home last night. Ziva is very intrigued with her, almost wants to play with her, but just isnt ready for the puppy to actually TOUCH her yet. She jumps sideways and runs from it. LOL.
On the way home last night
Dragon SLaying already
Ziva just cant believe she's real
Congratulations, what a cutie she is, I am sure Ziva will come round and they will be the best of friends.
Ziva is really REALLY good with small and young dogs---she's just not adjusted to her quite yet. I know she will, though. The owner was so desperate to rehome this little girl that she actually listed her on Craigslist. {{shudder}} I've heard so many horror stories about people that get dogs from there and how they use them as fighters or bait for fighting dogs. She lived in Indianapolis, too, which is notorious for gang wannabees getting "big bad dogs" to protect their drug kingdoms. I just couldnt let something like that happen to this little sweetie.
She is gorgeous! What a face! What a lucky little girl you are DJ to get such a good Dad...
Wow! I am so jealous! Welcome DJ! Can't wait to hear the updates and watch the lil pup grow! :)
Wow, Congratz! I'm very surprised that she didn't return her to the breeder. Kinda crazy O.o
But again, congratz!!!!
She has that spunky "I'm gonna get in mischeif, but I know when you look at me you won't be mad" look to her!! lol. Congrats on the new addition, and best of luck!
Thanks, guys. I weighed the pros and cons of adding her to my existing dog pack for so long, I nearly made myself sick over it. I ended up rationalizing by telling myself that all my little dogs total weight still isnt what Ziva is now, or what DJ will be a year from now, so it's basically like having three big dogs. LOL Serioulsy, though, my dogs all have respect for each other and for me and my family---and that's, or so I believe, what makes it all work together so smoothly. I honestly dont anticipate any problems whatsoever. Raising and training her is going to be so much fun!!!
why Hello there little Destiny..:) welcome, you're going to just love your big sister...and the rest of the littles gang too..
Oh Congratulations Paul!! I am so excited for you!! Please give DJ and Ziva a big hug and kiss from Harley and me!
Paul, we are just so thrilled for you and Destiny.. She is a mini-me of Ziva and you know how I beleive in Dobermans being "Karma Dogs" .. it's meant to be and you could not have picked a better name..and SHE could not have picked a better home.
Gunny is right you are a D.A.D.
Welcome home DJ you will be loved and cherished by all!
DJ is one lucky little girl, she has such a sweet look to her! Can't wait to see her grow up.
She is adorable beyond words. Lucky little girl to have found you!
So young, yet already Slaying Dragons. Now that's a doberman ;)
She is very pretty. I love the picture of Ziva almost touching noses with her.
You are very lucky! She is beautiful! 
Who is the breeder that would let that happen?? If one of my puppy owners tried something like that I would be seeing them in court! I'm not saying that you are not a good owner - I'm sure you are.... but a new home rehoming a puppy would not be happening with one of mine since they are required by contract to return a puppy to me. JMHO ... and good luck
from Fitzmar: Who is the breeder that would let that happen?? If one of my puppy owners tried something like that I would be seeing them in court!
Fitzmar, how is a breeder supposed to know what the person that buys a pup actually does with it after they purchase it? A contract is only as good as the paper it's written on if you dont have a clue that they are not abiding by the contract once they get home. If a prospective buyer passes all the breeders discriminatory tests and questions and that breeder even has them sign a contract, once they walk away from your facility with that puppy in hand, you have no guarantee that they will uphold their end of the deal at all. I have NO IDEA why these people didnt return the pup to the breeder when they found out they couldnt keep her. It makes no sense to me whatsoever. That's not my place to find out or judge. People do stupid, senseless things all the time about everything in life.
Congrat on your new baby! DJ is just adorable! I know she and Ziva will be best buds in no time. I can't wait to see more pics of your fur family :)
Wow! She's a beauty! Congratulations to you both.
I logged on this morning and now can't stop grinning! So exciting for you......and Ziva! I too can't wait to watch her grow and learn with her perfect example of a D.A.D! (love that by the way)
She looks so sweet, and I love the one with Ziva looking at her! I def have puppy fever now! lol
lots of dober smooches from harley
"from Fitzmar: Who is the breeder that would let that happen?? If one of my puppy owners tried something like that I would be seeing them in court!
Fitzmar, how is a breeder supposed to know what the person that buys a pup actually does with it after they purchase it? A contract is only as good as the paper it's written on if you dont have a clue that they are not abiding by the contract once they get home. If a prospective buyer passes all the breeders discriminatory tests and questions and that breeder even has them sign a contract, once they walk away from your facility with that puppy in hand, you have no guarantee that they will uphold their end of the deal at all. I have NO IDEA why these people didnt return the pup to the breeder when they found out they couldnt keep her. It makes no sense to me whatsoever. That's not my place to find out or judge. People do stupid, senseless things all the time about everything in life."
I keep in touch with people - no one with a 2 year old is going to leave with a puppy and not have a lot of follow up from me. As a breeder, I would be beyond furious. Contracts are legal - as a breeder, you have to be willing to spend the $$ to enforce it.... and I would!
I just have to wonder how well the breeder screened the buyer - I know sh*t can happen.... but WOW, just WOW!
I wish you a lot of luck with her - did you at least contact the breeder to let her know where the puppy now is??
Oh what a cutie pie DJ is - I was wondering too why the person didn't contact the breeder about this situation - I think it is really great for DJ that someone on Craig's list didn't snatch her; she has a great home with Ziva - and I agree the breeder should know where this darling little girl finally ended up so they can do follow ups - sounds like maybe there wasn't a lot of time that passed between pick up and finding her a new home, I would then assume the breeder had not had time enough to call in to check on her yet. I agree wow wow wow on so many levels. Since DJ has the same Mother as one of your other dogs (ziva?) then you should have contact info for the breeder? I would be devastated as a breeder to find out one of my babies had passed hands so quickly without my knowledge or input, but I would then be happy to hear that she had at least found her way to another of my dogs pups homes, how kismet is that??? Congrats to DJ for finding her way home..... let us know what the breeder says, this is most interesting......
Oh I was also going to comment on how large her feet and legs are, she is adorable, I LOVE the pic in the car - she is darling
Omg she is sooo cute!!! I'm soo glad she found her forever-home with you. You are a great dober-daddy and I wish you luck with the new addition. ♥♥♥
@ Fitzmar, I don't know if you intended to sound so condescending to Ziva's Dad in your first responce to him but I'm sure you did in your second post. As a matter of fact, you have posted quite a few holier than thou post on this forum. I usually just blow right by your posts and responses but since Ziva's Dad is a friend of mind I felt the need to mention this to you. You could have been a bit more cordial considering that the man pretty much saved that puppy from God knows what kind of life it could be going to. No, not you, you climb up on that pedestal and proceed to tout how much better a breeder you are than anyone else is or could be. You would do well to read "talisin's" post and get a better idea how to say the exact same thing you posted.......but......nicely.
Gunny
+1
I was about to say the same thing, but when I got to the end of this thread gun_slinger beat me to the draw (no pun intended LOL).
It is pretty obvious that you care a great deal for dobermans, and I think you are great asset to this forum, but lets just be happy for Ziva's dad and his new pup DJ.
Thanks, Gunny and d_spaghetti. I have pretty thick skin and I KNEW that if I posted in this group about getting the pup that surely SOMEONE would have done things differently, better, and more superior than what I could have ever done, and/or attack the breeder for allowing this to happen (like the breeder really had any input on it). Like I said, the breeder was kept out of the loop and I dont know why, but that's beside the point now. I just expect that sort of stuff from some people here, and have learned to ignore the negative posts pretty much. I'm not expecting "nothing but roses" from everyone, but why bother to flaunt how superior you are as a breeder, an owner, or a person when that has nothing whatsoever to do with the point at hand? It just gives me my daily chuckle. 
Congrats Ziva's Dad, she is so beautiful! The joys of puppyhood again...the fun you shall have! I love the last pic of Ziva looking at her, its like she is saying "lets get this straight, I'm the boss here", LOL.
She is adorable Ziva's Dad, her mussle looks exactly like my Dexters :) I want to hear about how this round of puppyhood is any different with Ziva there to help ot. I say 10 to 1 DJ tries to nurse on Ziva at some point this week LOL
Snapped this last night after they finished a 25 minute 'play' together and settled down for a nap. SO SWEET!
Aw that is so adorable, what a sweetheart Ziva is, DJ is a lucky girl
Snoozin and treats, what a life LOL!
I love that picture of the two of them snoozing. I'm sure DJ is taking cues from Z.. knowing someday she will be a big sassy dobe just like her sis.
Paul, you've done so much for dogs all over.. You've brought rescues into your home time and time again. You've done without personal 'extras' to be sure they're fed correctly and their health is cared for properly.and that they all get the love and attention needed to make them safe and secure.. I Don't know of anyone I admire and respect as much as I do you and your wife.
Your sacrifices have gone above and beyond anyone I know of and I am just asking for blessings from HIM for you and yours.
KUDOS GUNNY!!! After I read this last night i was fuming....I didn't respond then but was pondering over what I was going to say....even been thinking about it this morning and got on here just to see what had been said on this thread and I have to say I couldn't have said it better! I too try and over look alot of the critical remarks made and I go thru to get the good advice (and there is alot of it out there)....i don't disput the advice of some just their approach to giving it....we are all here in the interest of not only our own "kiddos" but the breed in general so to speak with such condesending tones is uncalled for in most cases (there have been a few that required a sharp tongue :) )....Paul, I too commend you for rescuing another puppy and saving her from who-knows-what
and Gunny Jax is GORGEOUS!! I called my husband in here the other day to see his new pic....very nice
Guys, I don't think Fitzmar was being quite as condescending as you all make her out to be. Dobermans are a HUGE part of her life, and she cares about them immensely. When she sees a fellow breeder, someone who is supposed to be responsible, letting something like this happen, I think her anger is justified. She isn't being negative toward Ziva's Dad at all! We are all thankful that the puppy is in HIS hands, and not some scumbags. But that is what could have happened.
Don't judge Fitzmar because she cares about dogs. "No, not you, you climb up on that pedestal and proceed to tout how much better a breeder you are than anyone else is or could be."
Tell me just WHERE Fitzmar was blowing her own horn. Where?! Not in this post, not in others. She has stated what good breeders SHOULD do, and what she does, because she is responsible. Keep in mind, that Ziva's Dad asked her how a breeder would make sure the puppy was alright. She told him what she does. Simple as that. You guys have a problem with how she wrote her response. She was obviously distressed about the whole matter, we all get that way. Take the high road, if ZD has a big problem with Fitz, he can deal with it.
Nobody wants to hijack ZD's thread and start an argument. I am just as excited for him as any of you, and I wish him good luck.
Oh my the picture of the two of them after play - HOW ADORABLE AND LOVING IS THAT PICTURE??? How lucky to have this opportunity to watch the two of them, and congrats for taking on another dober and a young one at that; she is just so cute. I had made up my mind to pursue a collie but I tell ya' looking at DJ's pictures just make me want a doberman so bad, but that's not a reason to go out and get one, :)) and DJ those are my husbands initials too funny. I am so happy for you and DJ, I can't wait, I know I always say this but I have to live vicariously through you guys, but I can't wait for more pictures!!! I loved seeing pics of Ziva but now with a baby I want more pics - are you snapping pictures every minute, I would be, they grow up so fast......Big old Benie hugs to DJ. Ben has now been nicknamed Bennie (Benie) Man he loves it so big hugs from BenieMan.....I still have that picture of the Little People on Ziva's head on my desktop that is too funny, when I have a dreary day I pull that picture up and laugh every time.....
THIS FORUM IS DANGEROUS!!! Dexter is only 13 weeks old and pictures like these make me wanna hunt for a good breeder to get him a little sister! Congratulations on the addition :)
Oh my goodness, she is just adorable, what a happy family you must have ;)
Ziva & DJ's Dad ~ KUDOS for staying an active member of Gentledoberman! Lots of negative drama to wade thru at times. But you have a gift for staying true to yourself and your love for the breed. Many readers have received a ton of valuable advice and great stories from your experiences!
When I think of little DJ in your home, it's nothing but GOOD! Her story makes me think of the new series on tv, "Touch".
DJ is an absolute doll, I love the photos! My favorite is the last one you posted where her and Ziva are crashed out after playing, it is PRECIOUS!!!!So thankful that you were able to find and give DJ a good home and yes what are the chances that you would ever run across that again lol. Just think of what could have happened to her. It was meant to be and Im glad you were there to welcome her to your pack.
Enjoy her...I know you will
Wow, thanks, everyone. Des, I appreciate your words so much.
I dont want to get into this to much NOR take away from ANY of the joy of DJ's wonderful new home, just trying to keep the peace and help others see the other side. I dont believe that Fitzmar was being condescending in her post. I think this community at times takes posts way to personally and reads between the lines what they think the poster is communicating. Remember that we cant see the expression or listen to the tone behind the words we see.Remember Just trying to be a peacemaker and help others to see both sides.
I'm going to use myself as an example of how this type of thing happens using my last litter as an example. I go through a very stringent puppy placement process, im not going to bother typing all that I do and things the potential puppy buyers have to prove and go through to purchase one of my puppies but believe me it is a process and takes a lot of time. With our last litter we had one failed pregnancy so we had solid people waiting on our list for over a year. I had one girl puppy in this litter which I wasn't sure if she would be all that I wanted conformationally but I had a lady that had been on my list for a black show quality female for the entire time that was willing to take the chance. So she was sold on a co-ownership contract.
This family came highly recommended by my handler as she had shown all her previous dobermans and this is how the referral came about to begin with. This lady never gave me any inclination that things would turn out as they did the entire year of our back and forth communication. I might add at this point that my contract was given to me by a very well known show Doberman breeder. I thought at the time if this is what she uses then it must stand in court how naive and dumb of me!!! I even added to the contract as I thought it was a little to loose and there were other things that I wanted covered. The stud dog that we used on Paris' litter wanted me to hold onto this little girl from the litter but I decided to let her go on this contract as it was the perfect situation for all involved. So I let her go...she stayed in contact per contract for the first 6mo of their lives then it fell to shit and I have no clue if the puppy is dead, alive, sold nothing!!! She wont return emails, phone calls, texts or letter communication from either myself or the handler that connected us.
When the puppy was 4mo old the families 11 year old male doberman snapped and broke her jaw. This is basically when things started going down hill. I tried to remain as calm as i could and was looking for loopholes in the contract to get the puppy back (they didn't know this either) . According to the owners the male died 2 days after this happened. I found out basically that the contract would not really hold up in court. The family kept me in the loop for awhile throughout the puppies vet visits then basically would not return any communication. Seeing that this was my very last female from my breedings it was very devastating. This litter girl was very hard to let go in the first place and the only reason I did was because of what a good home they were. My husband as well is devastated, she was his favorite in the litter and he asks me just about weekly if I've heard from them.
I can only hope and pray that my little girl didn't end up on craigslist somewhere or killed or dumped in a shelter. If she was to be given up I hope she was rescued by someone like Zivas dad who would provide her with the love and care that she deserves. I have made the peoples name quite public with the show breeders on the West Coast here in hopes that these people will be held accountable and not be able to trick or lie to another breeder again. Your average pet buyer doesn't understand how much goes into a litter and why we ask and make people prove and do things just to purchase a puppy this is just one example of things going wrong and why the process gets more difficult each time.
If and when I EVER breed another litter I will first have a contract drawn up by a lawyer that will stand in court! Woe to the next person that crosses me like this again. 
I gota say, I took what Fitzmar said to be mainly anger and frustration at the breeder and the person that bought the dog for doing this, rather than anything negative to Paul. I can't imagine a better home for that pup than where she ended up either. Paul, Ziva and the entire clan will assure she gets a better life than most dogs. BUT, I can see Fitz side of things too...that breeder now has no idea where that little dog is or if it's ok. it was certainly not an ideal situation because someone not nearly as responsible as Paul could have taken that dog too.
Paul, I am so glad that you were able to get DJ. I know you were torn about getting her, and I'm sure the Craigslist thing tipped the scales. The first photos of Ziva and DJ remind me so much of Red's reaction to Princess and then Princess' reaction to Jake. It was as if they were saying "Take that thing back where you found it". But within a very short time, the older one becomes accustomed to the puppy and starts training it.
One advantage you will find is that they will wear each other out. If you have a nice large area where they can run (and is fenced), then you can turn them loose. There is no sight a beautiful as two Dobes running full out. IMHO.
I took Fitzmar's posting as a little brusque but upset not at Ziva's dad, but with the breeder. But ZD is also correct in that once the money has been paid, the puppy handed over and paperwork completed, then the breeder does not have a lot of control. It could be that the first "owners" of DJ didn't want to return the pup to the breeder, because the breeder wouldn't pay them anything. This way they at least recouped at least part of their money. As we can all attest, Thank Goodness someone like ZD was able to rescue the precious little girl.
RND - your experience just sent chills up my back. I remember a simlar thread over on DT, but that was an adult breeding female that was loaned to a "friend" and the true owner never saw the dog again. For those of us who truly love these animals, and would do anything for them, such situations are heart rending. And, like a missing person, not knowing is the worst part if it.
Oh my lord that poor little girl dober broken jaw terrible......and I also never took the Fitz post to be anything but pure anger at the person who would not honor their contract after agreeing to it and then dare place that little dog on craig's list, I hate craig's list. It's just a place for people to "dump" their unwanted animals, horrible I would love to see craig's list ban the offering of living beings on the site - to me that would solve a lot of issues in the animal world. But that's me.....I think it's great that the puppy found Ziva's Dad, I think it would also be great to at some point let the breeder know their pup is ok and in great hands with a loving family that is forever......I can't believe that it's the same mother just stunned me, amazing how small the world really is.....
a last thought - I wonder if DJ will also have little people on her head one day, hahahahaha be sure to have the camera ready.....
I'm not mad at Ziva's Dad - and I don't know where people got that?? I'm totally po'd at the situation and as a breeder I would be doing backflips to find out where that puppy is ... so in that respect, I truly hope that they contact the breeder and let them know that they have the puppy and give them their contact information...... because it is the RIGHT thing to do no matter what kind of breeder she came from. I'm very glad that the puppy appears to have fallen into a good home.... so many don't.
As good breeders, we can go above and beyond to find the right homes for our puppies, but sometimes you can get fooled. It is beyond heartbreaking to have someone refuse to let you know how the dog that you bred is doing. I have this situation in my first litter. The pick puppy in the litter went back to my bitches breeder who in turn sold her on a show co-ownership. Not only did the people never do what the contract said, they also refuse to keep in touch with either of us. I have kept them in the loop on my litter email list of all health testing and all other updates for 4 years - I have also sent them information via snail mail. Not ONCE have they ever had the decency to respond. This was the puppy that almost died at a week of age, and that I spent almost a week nursing and tube feeding around the clock because I refused to let her die......... now 4 years later I have never even gotten an email or a picture of her. Oh, and the owner is a cop.... but felt free to break a legal contract. So if anyone ever wonders why Harvard is the only champion from my first litter, that is why. His sister was beautiful... and hopefully still is ... but who knows!
So yeah, a situation like this thread strikes a BIG nerve with me because some people seem to think that once a puppy leaves a breeder that they cease to care about it. While I'm sure that is true for some, NOTHING could be farther from the truth for me and many like me. It is not like we made and sold a piece of pottery - we bred and raised a living breathing dog that we will always care about.
So for those who think I am on some "high horse" - try looking at it from a different perspective. When you buy a well bred puppy from a really good breeder, the relationship does not end with payment for a puppy. It is a lifelong (and sometimes longer) relationship, and truthfully I feel bad for anyone who has never experienced it. You will find champion breeders sometimes sharing pictures on facebook of puppies/dogs that were sold as pets - because they are proud of every dog they bred....not just the show dogs!
FYI---Fitz, I really DO see your point, as a breeder. That's why I would never want to be a breeder---it would worry the crap out of me as to what happens to every single pup that ever went home with anyone, whether you trust them or not. People do the weirdest things and there is never an explanation for WHY. I'm not upset over this thread in the least....it shows both sides of the story, from a concerned breeder's point of view to the view from a person like me that just sort of ended up not wanting to see a pup have a questionable future no matter what the prevailing circumstances are.
Oh, and just in case anyone is still wondering--I did send the breeder a rather lengthy email informing him of the pup's whereabouts and the entire situation. I havent heard back from him yet, but he's never been the type to email anything immediately. I'm sure he will be upset, if for no other reason than to feel like he was lied to by the buyers.
@Rnd, your story made me sad. I'm really sorry you had to go through all that and I hope the pup is ok.
@Fitzmar, it's unfortunate the people are so inconsiderate, 4 years and nothing?! I think that your passion for the breed is something to be admired. In my search for breeders I have actually took note of breeders that make you sign a contract that the dog must be returned if you cannot take care of it. Not because I will ever end up in that situation (my dog is part of my family, and I would bulldoze my way through hell for my family), but because I think it says something about how much the breeders care.
@Ziva's Dad, my girlfriend has fallen in love with DJ, so more pictures for me to show her would be wonderful. ;)
Ziva - thanks for letting the breeder know. Even if they are less than stellar, they do deserve to know.... and they should be glad that you got her as she could have really ended up in a horrible situation - although maybe not much worse than the one that she was apparently sold into. Sometimes things work out for the best - thank goodness.
As for the girl I bred, yeah, the people are just apparently jerks. They never considered me their "breeder" since they bought her from my Louise's breeder and she carried my kennel name on the back of her registered name instead of the front. But they came here to meet her and left with her from here - they know that I am the one who bred the litter and raised it. I even took a lovely picture of their whole family with the puppy in my family room. So they walked away with the pick show puppy and never did anything that they promised to do. So basically, they screwed two reputable breeders..... hope they don't ever plan on buying another good Doberman!
When you buy a well bred puppy from a really good breeder, the relationship does not end with payment for a puppy. It is a lifelong (and sometimes longer) relationship
An illustration ... There was a puppy in my first litter, Dionne. Dee's owner also had a little poodle mix named Frankie, and they were best buddies. Dionne passed away in 2005. Last week I got an e-mail from the owner telling me Frankie had passed away, and she just thought I should know because she was Dee's best friend and that she feels they're together again.
Seven years after we really need to have any contact but she's still letting me know things she thinks concerns Dee! So sweet.
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Welcome home DJ. You could not have ended up with a better D.A.D. (doberman authoritative designate)