SearchChoosing a New Puppy
Hi! I'm new to this forum. My husband and I are awaiting pictures from a breeder so we can choose the puppy we want to get. We are excited. We have had 2 dobermans in the past. The first one was Max, a red male. We got him as a stray at about 3 years old. We had him for 4 years until our daughter was about 6 months old and we gave him to a loving home because our place back then was too small. He was great with her but we knew that there wasn't going to be room for him and a toddler so we found him a loving home. It was very hard to get rid of him. Later we got her a terrier/poodle mix we had for 14 years until she passed away. Three years ago we got my daughter a puppy, Cisco. Another red male doberman. Just two weeks ago our daughter and her do moved out. We miss them both terriably and are going to get a new puppy. We are so excited to pick one from the pictures and get the ball rolling. They red males the breeder has are 7 weeks old and he will be letting them go at 10 weeks. The puppy will be shipped to us and we can't wait till that day!
Yes. welcome, and I'm sure you are super excited about getting your new puppy. Have you picked out a name yet?
Yes, the excitement of awaiting a puppy if fun. We just went through it 3 years ago when we got my daughters puppy and yes the do grow fast. I am an avid scrapbooker so I definitely will be taking lots of pictures and I'll be sure to share them with you all.
We are thinking of Max, which was the name of our first red dobie or else Zeke. My husband is torn between the two names. I think once he sees the pictures and picks one out he'll know which name to choose.
Jersey girl~~ You are the second person on this forum to be having a pup SHIPPED to you!! What are you thinking???
If I'm out of line here, someone please let me know..but to purchase an internet baby.. not meeting the dam, the sire, the breeders.. to just toss a coin into the air and get a cyber-Dobe.. come on..
are you rewarding BYB?/ Do you KNOW these people?? have you researched the parents? Seen the whelping box? Talked ( IN PERSON ) to the breeders??... Seen, met and delt with the sire and dam?
What kind of health testing has been done on the litter? Are they willing to doc, crop and crate train the pups??
Please tell me you've done the homework on this selection..
Ooops--guess I missed reading the part about having the puppy "shipped". Might I ask, why? Are there not any breeders close enough to go get one without having it mailed to you?
*added later: "mailed" in this sense, to me, means the same thing as shipped...nothing offensive was intended.
I was sorta thinking the same things as Kate...Not to rain on your parade Jerseygirl, I'm sure you have the best of intentions and are really excited about getting your new puppy - who wouldn't be?
Now we don't know the details of your situation so we could be totally off base - you tell us. But a breeder who ships their puppies across the country raises a red flag for a number of reasons...one being that they don't really know what kind of a home their puppy is going to, which means they are more concerned with turning a profit than they are with the welfare of their dogs. It also means that you have no idea what kind of condition they are keeping the bitch in, what the temperment of her or the sire are, if they have any hereditary health issues, and a whole slew of other unknowns!
How much do you know about this breeder's practices, and the parents of the puppies? What kind of health guarantee are you getting, if any? It's reaaaally important that you do your homework in selecting a breeder because an iresponsible one is NOT one that you want to support by buying one of their puppies!
I guess that most here know that I'm a breeder. As such, I generally do not choose to ship my puppies for the most part, but I have done so occasionally.
The first one was from my 7th litter. I live in Ontario, and he lives in Newfoundland. However, his family knew people in Ontario that I know. His owner belonged to one of the Doberman clubs to which I belong. She flew to Ontario to meet me and my dogs, and she brought along pictures of her home, and the most beautiful scrapbook of her departed Doberman. We got to know each other via e-mail and the telephone for a few months before my litter was born. I was able to get references on her from the people we knew in common and vice versa.
The next one I shipped was from my 8th litter. A Canadian Kennel Club judge was scoping out breeders for a friend of hers who lives in Alberta. The judge came to visit my litter a few times - we already kinda knew each other as my dogs go back to some of hers and we had been in contact in the past. Her friend who was looking for the puppy had purchased a few Dobermans from her over the course of 30 years. Obviously, I was checked out by the judge and she was able to provide a good reference for the buyer, having known her for eons.
One was shipped from my last litter, the 9th. He went to Alberta also. Fortunately, his parents train at the same place as someone I knew from the DPCC so I was able to check on them through her, and I also contacted the owners of the training facility for references on them.
On the other side of the coin, living in Ontario, I purchased a puppy from Baton Rouge, Louisiana back in 1998. I know that his breeders checked me out through other long-time, well-known Doberman people in my area. I was able to check them out through someone from one of the Doberman groups who was familiar with them and the dam of my puppy from shows.
I really wouldn't recommend for novices to contact far flung breeders that they can't check out and have puppies shipped to them. But if you're part of a Doberman network, it can work. Those of who show, in particular, get to know other breeders and exhibitors all over the place. Rescue people also network a great deal. I sure wouldn't recommend buying a puppy from a distant breeder without talking to the other Doberman breeders in their area as well as the rescue people. Breed specific rescue people often know a great deal about the breeders in their area, who's responsible and who's not.
I also breed on a very small scale and have flown my puppies. Out of 3 litters we had 2 fly out. One was a puppy that I owed back to the breeder of one of my bitches the other was fromour last litter with Paris. The last puppy the owners flew here spent the night at my house and flew home the next day with him. All the other puppies went to neighboring state where the future owners had to drive 6hours or more and still had to go through the exact process as the other homes. I've also purchased a dog from the other side of the states. There are many ways to check out puppy homes and I put my puppy buyers through the ringer so to speak. I don't just ship a puppy to anyone that has the money to do so. If someone wants one of my dogs they really have to prove themselves worthy of it. I turn down 98% of them. Those that make it to the next level will have home checks I usually try and contact dpca members in the area. I also ask to have pictures sent and referrals which I do check. To make a long story short it is a long process and you can never be to careful.
Well I must say I'm pretty shocked at all of your responses about shipping (not mailed - shipped via airline). Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Yes, we have done our research, our last dog, Cisco was shipped to us. He was the most wonderful dog! There are breeders in our area but we can not afford the cost of their dogs (even if you put the cost of shipping onto the cost of the dog).
Since I am not purchasing a dog to be a show dog or to breed the dog, I am just purchasing the dog as a family pet because we love the breed, I don't see why all the harsh comments. Our first doberman was a rescue and there was no way to know any of the issue you all are so afraid of us not knowing because we haven't met the breeder or the parents or no the health history. So, really, get off your high horses, if I was a person purchasing the dog as a show dog or to breed I could maybe see your point. And there are a lot of breeders who ship.
At first glance on this site I though it would be a great site for discussion and resource but now I see that there are a group of you that obviously are, for a lack of a better word, snobs about owning dobermans. I'll leave my account active long enough for you to see my post but then I will close my account because you all are not the type of people I would like to associate with.
We love the doberman breed as a family pet, we have had 2 and I really am taken back but the responses of most of you.
Im responding by droid and it wouldn't let me type anymore with the last text.
Often the types of breeders that are in your own backyard are not the quality you seek or should seek. Everyone should research before buying. Ask for proof of health testing. I love glengates suggestion of contacting the local dobe rescue these poor people deal with lots of your local backyard greeders unwanted dogs and puppies. I would at the same time contact dpca members of the state you live in and ask them if they have heard of the breeder. I spend more time on the phone trying to educate people to make good choices even though I don't have puppies, for the love of the breed and hate of the backyard breeder dipshits.
Off to work excuse typos I hate this touchpad phone
THANKS FOR YOUR RESPONSES AND GOODBYE!
Dear jerseyGirl
Sometimes things here on the forum get read in a different light than they are written..
I don't think anyone here are snobs.. not in the least.. the only thing we all have in common is that we love the breed with a passion close to obsession
I apologize if what I wrote seems harsh to you.. I certainly meant no harm or malice..just a concern for you and your soon to be pet.
Jerseygirl - People here are wonderful and passionate-
They are just looking out for you and your family and arent trying to be mean or spiteful or nasty- trust me!
I am sure having had dobes before you know what you want and made an intellegent decision.
My red male is Cisco by the way- Maybe if you reread you will see nobody was trying to be hurtful or mean...
Jerseygirl, I dont think anyone was trying to be mean. I certainly was not trying to be mean, I was just curious as to why you would have a puppy shipped via air. I know that I would never be able to afford the air fare to get a dog, and I had to drive out of central Indiana about 200 miles into Illinois to get my Ziva because the breeders around here were either "TOP NOTCH" (or so their ads said) and wanted as much for their puppies as it would have cost me to buy another car, or were backyard breeders that thought because they had a female and knew a good ol' boy that had a male, they would just have themselves a littler of doberman puppies and make themselves some big money. That's not what I was looking for on either end of the spectrum. I just wanted a good quality, healthy doberman puppy to be a member of my family, not for breeding, or to show or earn titles or any of that stuff, but I still knew that I couldnt afford to buy from across the country and have one shipped to me. Just curious, that's all, and was hoping that you could provide an answer to my question.
I'm really sorry that our comments offended you - we really aren't trying to be snobs in the least, just have a great love for the breed as Kate said. I wasn't trying to be mean, I just wanted to see that you had made an informed decision, for your own best interest. Many people don't realize the importance of the breeder they choose when they look for a puppy - myself included, as we got Dakota from a backyard breeder and saw no harm in it because we, like you, were just looking for a pet with no intention of ever showing. Until I joined this forum and read some of the many informative threads that are on here regarding choosing a breeder. I just didn't want to see you make the same mistakes we did.
My apologies for offending, we got off on the wrong foot here and I hope you will reconsider and stick around. This is a great place to learn and an awesome support network while you are raising a puppy!
Many passionate opinions on this topic -- here's mine:
Many 'Master' breeders simply would not sell a dog to Herr Dobermann himself. 'You want him to what? protect you while collecting taxes and have him spend a good deal of time at the city kennel that you oversee, NO WAY! My dogs require X, Y and Z period.'
That, of course, is their own prerogative. I'm positive that most 'Master' breeders would refuse me for the simple fact that I live in San Francisco regardless of the fact that SF is one the most dog friendly cities in the country with multiple off leash parks including the largest in the entire nation(point Isabel), etc, etc.
That said, I would indeed be cautious about buying a pup online due to the puppy-mill factor -- I'd pretty much avoid any 'breeder' from Missouri or other plain states in that circumstance. If I were in Jerseygirl's shoes I'd at least BS the breeder with something of a lie such as: 'I got a deal on airfare and I want to come see the pup's parents and pick out the puppy that appeals to me.' Then, if the breeder gave any excuse whatsoever on how'd that be a problem I'd then cancel.
Only my opinion, of course.
And that's why we have a forum!! I am so glad there is a place for us to share opinions, and I for one, applaud honesty and the integrity found here.
I belong to several writers' workshops.. One is so kind and gentle.. I never know if my stuff is really good, or if they're just being generous in spirit. There's another who will cut my 'babies' to ribbons, and leave my with a manuscript in shreds. .but THAT'S the one I learn from.
This forum is partly designed to protect and promote Dobermans.. If we can advise someone and keep them from heartbreak and possible re-homing a dear one, I think it's our responsibility to offer our opinions.. hopefully they will be taken in the spirit in which they are offered..
You guys are the best. You're honest and deliberate in your thinking and raising your kids.. bless you all
Oh my dog!!!
I'm simply gonna say...as for my husband & me, we chose to visit Sophie's breeder, her mom{dam}, and her dad{sire}. We wanted to get a feel for the home Sophie was born into, the breeder and the interactions with the breeder and ALL of the Dobermans living there. I think the realationship between breeder and dogs speaks VOLUMES!! Sasha & Loki, {mom & dad}, were very gentle, friendly, and attentive to Sophie. Loki, even comes around and lays with them, and licks his pups. This is a very good thing, and highly unusual, most time the dads, are just not involved. Our breeder tells us that Loki has done this with past litters as well. When we held Sophie, Loki settled close, but he was at ease, and Sasha sniffed Sophie a few times in my arms then she settled close by, also at ease. As for the breeder and her realationship with her dogs, it was amazing, they truely love her and she loves them. You can't FAKE that, dogs know, they and children can't be fooled! It was a 4 hour trip one way, but so worth it, and we will be going back to pick Sophie up. I do know that our breed has shipped, and hand delivered, she certainly charges extra for that, but who could just afford to do it on their own. I'm not gonna take sides on this, it's simply none of my business. I suggest to do the research, and for US that included the trip. I personally just think it's important. And with that being said....... HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY to EVERYONE!!!!!! 
Wow. I came in late and all I can add is my experience in acquiring Princess. When I e-mailed the breeder, I was sent a puppy application. This sort of set me back. Now keep in mind that is was only the sixth Doberman puppy I went to a breeder for, and the previous one was definitely a BYB.
Although Red was the product of a BYB, I did recognize that fact and caused me to hesitate several weeks before doing it. With limited contacts at the time and no real network, and losing my own line, I picked him up in 2003. It had been 11 years since my last outside acquisition and that was from a long term local breeder with national contacts. I also spent hours in his kennel talking Dobies with him while he exercised and fed his dogs. I was put in contact with him by a local AKC Judge who knew him personally. Unfortunately about ten years ago he passed away. He was in his 80's at the time.
So, I was set back a bit by the application, and for about 30 seconds, somewhat offended. Then I recognized it for what it was. It was the breeder trying to make sure their puppies went to proper homes. It told me a lot about the breeder. I was then contacted by telephone, and we had several conversations. One hurdle was the distance, as I was informed that they no longer shipped puppies. There had been some bad experiences. I did not inquire, but I have read the news. I for one would not want a puppy shipped by air unless there is simply no other way, and then I think I would do what RND's customer did - fly up myself and bring the puppy back.
I did not fly up, but drove the 900+ miles one way to pick up the puppy. Was rewarded with spending several hours talking Dobies, and it might have been a little longer, but with the weather situation I wanted to get back to the motel (4 hours south) before dark. Princesses, papa did manage during my visit to bop me in the mouth with his hard Doberman head, when I leand down over him and he brought his head up.
The trip back with Princess was priceless and it was during the evening in the motel that she got her name. I was also able to stop every two hours to give her a chance to stretch her legs, get a bathroom break and have some lap time.
I am sorry that Jersey Girl got upset, but there are so many red flags raised. She did not mention that the breeder made any attempt to check her out, and she did not mention any steps she took to check out the breeder. Then the unaccompanied travel of a young puppy is fraught with danger. Yes, the airlines fly thousands of puppies every year, but they also lose a lot. We hear the horror stories about passengers spending 10 hours on an airline, but what if there is an airline crate in the hold with an 8 week old puppy? Could the pup survive?
I do hope it works out for her, but we are unlkely to ever know. That is unfortunate.
JerseyGirl
At first glance on this site I though it would be a great site for discussion and resource but now I see that there are a group of you that obviously are, for a lack of a better word, snobs about owning dobermans. I'll leave my account active long enough for you to see my post but then I will close my account because you all are not the type of people I would like to associate with.
We love the doberman breed as a family pet, we have had 2 and I really am taken back but the responses of most of you.
This is a great site for discussion. That's why you got the responses you did. And these people are not snobs, they're wonderful. They are concerned for the well-being of the Doberman breed. It doesn't matter that you're not breeding or showing this puppy. If you aren't investigating the breeder, and the breeder isn't investigating you, you're most probably buying from an irresponsible breeder - which means you are supporting the breeder's irresponsible activities and harming the Doberman breed. Not to mention, you very well might get an unhealthy puppy or a puppy with a bad temperament.
That's why you are seeing concern here. We're trying to help. 
Also, I'd encourage you to re-read the responses above with a slightly less defensive attitude. I'm sure you'll find their responses thoughtful, and also helpful to any Doberman or dog lover.
After all - what were you looking for here? If we see you doing something harmful to yourself or to our breed wouldn't you like us to say something? Or would you rather us smile and cheer while you purchase yourself a heart-break?
Interesting rnddobermans -- 98% rejection rate seems, well, a bit high to me. I'm not trying to criticize you at all here whatsoever but I am genuinely curious about that. I have no intention of breeding dogs but I would love to know how that system works.
Thanks much.
-D
I'm posting this and would like to start off by saying that nothing in this post is meant to put anyone down on here. This is the way I do things and everyone is different.
98 may be a bit high but if you were to read or answer all my calls I get regarding puppies then it is pretty darn close. My emails are filled daily with requests from people looking to purchase a Doberman puppy. I get multiple calls during the week and very few of them would I ever place a dog with. Hate to say this but I could sell puppies all year long if I had them and didn't care where they went. most would be surprised at the types of calls that breeders get and what people are looking for. I'm extremely picky about the people that I place my puppies with.
When I breed which is very seldom the babies are always sold before they are even born. The most important thing to me is to handpick homes that I know are going to have the dogs best interest at heart. I could start listing what I look for but I don't want to offend those that wouldn't meet my particular criteria and have to listen to defensive posts regarding it. Everyone has different things based on personal experience of what they look for. I get enough emails asking for help with different situations with dog owners that I choose to stay away from certain things. That is just me, I'm in it for the dogs that I produce and want the very best for them. There are big differences between different breeders what they look for in puppy buyers, how they raise the puppies, health testing, etc. I try to represent the breed the best I can I feel if I'm going to produce a litter of puppies then I am going to put ALL I have in it to correctly raise them while they are here, I'm also responsible for the dogs I produce should a need arise that they need to be rehomed.
I cant tell you how much time and money I put into a litter. I take the entire time off of work to be with the litter and raise good puppies. They are not just stuck in a back room somewhere in the house with occasional visitors. One look at my website and the last puppy photo journal will give you a small sample of how they are raised. I take great pride in training and providing mentally stimulating areas for them to play. The days that they are in my care are filled with things to make them the best they can be. My puppies go to their homes crate trained, fearless of noise, heavily socialized and all in all well balanced babies that are ready to take on the world.
So while my rejection rate may seem high I love this breed more that anything and only want what is best for those that I bring in to the world. If you have children you can liken it to wanting what is best for them. I do have 3 girls and oh how I would have love to handpick their husbands and homes that they get to live the rest of their days in LOL!
rnddobermans, I visited your site, beautiful "kids"!!!!! Your brownie boy reminds me of our Min~Pin, Loren, same color and sweet eyes. It's amazing how much the 2 breeds look similar, but are completely nonrelated, the Min~Pin is the older of the 2. I was hoping you might share more info on the Wetcoats. Do you sell them, and the prices. It'll be awhile before Sophie might need one, but I'm interested. Thank you, Angie
I heartily respect everyone's comments on this, but.. In Jersey Girl's defense, did she ever have a chance to answer about how much investigation she did on the breeder, or vice versa? As the breeders on this site have commented, they HAVE shipped puppies, albeit knowing the purchaser's circumstances, and having thoroughly screened them.
Sometimes people's situation's make it so that "driving 10 hours" or whatever to the breeder's just isn't an option, and hoping upon prayer that they are buying a quality pup.
I've been around dogs, trainers, and breeders all my life, mostly in hunting/field trial dogs. Shipping a pup is not such an unreal concept. The puppy mill situation is most definately something to be aware of, but they are pretty obvious once you get on the website.
I wish her well. And I'm sorry that she got the feeling that she did from this forum, and I know it was all with best intentions. We should welcome a new doberman lover.
This is why I posted what I did. People jumped to the conclusion it is a bad thing. I was trying to give the other side of it from a breeders prospective and as a buyer. I live in Idaho and had ashow puppy flown site unseen from New Jersey. Granted the litter was recommended by a breeder judge who also personally went out to evaluate her for me. Although I prefer not to ship them Im not against doing so under the right situation.
Unfortunately their are however way to many puppy mill people who have glorious websites and to those that don't know any better fall into their traps.
Ithink some very good points we're made and if the poster reads through again looking for those, she may learn from it. I think it is more shameful to stand silent and let an innocent person get hurt.
I'm not great with math here but if all hobby breeders are in your words 'dipshits', and I'll go ahead and assume that your feelings on puppy mills/pet stores are that they are pure evil(which of course they are), going along with statistic of nine out of ten candidates for 'Master' breeder puppies are rejected(for whatever reason). It kinda seems like there is a bit of discrepancy on whom should be allowed to be a caregiver to a dog.
I'm not trying to insult you in any way -- I visited your site and it appears that you're as dedicated and knowledgeable as any breeder ever was + your dogs are gorgeous. But, having gone through the process and research of finding a puppy over the course of the last year I must say that the elitism of some(I'm not saying you) can get a little tiresome. It'd be nice if we could find a solution -- I can't even think of any process to compare it to -- maybe child adoption...
Only my opinion, of course.
-D
There used to be a time that I kept more detailed records on who contacted me and when and what they were looking for. When I finally stopped keeping records so detailed, I had around 120 or so puppy enquiries a year. Producing one litter a year or less (and it could be a small litter with only a couple of puppies to place), it's pretty easy to have a 98% rejection rate when you have that many enquiries. Like RnD, I'm choosy about where my puppies go, and with the number of enquiries received, I've got a lot of homes to choose from, thankfully.
having gone through the process and research of finding a puppy over the course of the last year I must say that the elitism of some(I'm not saying you) can get a little tiresome.
The puppies ARE our babies, and you're right, it is like child adoption. Put yourself in our place - if you had a puppy to place, are you going to just send it home with the first person who asks or are you going to choose the best possible home you can find for it? Why would it be considered elitisim to want the best possible home for our "kids"?
"Put yourself in our place - if you had a puppy to place, are you going to just send it home with the first person who asks or are you going to choose the best possible home you can find for it?"
Of course I would, and I have no problem with that at all -- it's your choice. On the same token I don't have an issue with a responsible hobby breeder mating two healthy dogs and selling their offspring to responsible caregivers sans the intrusive interrogation that goes well beyond varifying the ability to care for 100% of a puppy's needs. Perhaps I'm an idiot and Evie and I aren't good enough to be on this forum but elitism in any form typically annoys the heck out of me.
Geez peeps lets all chill and remember what we are here for. Its a forum- everyone is entitled to their opinions, but let's not get nasty with one another... I for one chose this forum over others because of the knowledge and the "gentle" manner in which everyone gave their opionions and advice... I got thrashed right off the other one for buying my pup where i did...
I have met wonderful friends and advisors here. I don't get mad when someone offers advice or opinions I may not like. Especially rnd or glengate- they A) know what they are talking about and B) are very wonderful passionate champions for our wonderful breed..
A-Men..
D--- I think you hit the nail on the head-"responsible hobby breeder". In my mind there is a difference between that and a BYB. All Breeders had to start somewhere. This is going to be a never-ending controversy. What bothers me is the Catch 22 with the puppies caught in the middle. Responsible breeders are vital to keeping a breed true in conformation, personality traits of the breed, and health of the breed. This is a given. But, there will always be BYB and puppy mills (which of course I don't condone). The fact of the matter is that there ARE puppys on the ground that also need homes. There's the quandry to me. The arguement is that if people don't buy these puppies, the practice is discouraged and hopefully not perpetuated. Does that mean that these puppies that do come about don't have a shot at being able to live instead of euthanized in a pound? Of course people should get educated about the breed they desire so they know what they're getting into, and it's up to the breeders to make sure of that for the sake of all concerned, but the reality is that there's dogs out there that didn't have a say in all of this that need homes too. And that is unfortunate for sure.
Showing, agility, field trials, etc. are all great sport and fabulous things for the owner and the dog in so many ways. But at the end of the day, if the dog has food in it's tummy, a warm place to sleep and a loving hand stroking it's head, that's the bottom line. Better than dead.
Sorry to get on a soap box here, but this thread has been bothering me. And I know there isn't a solution.
Happydance I think you summed it up pretty well right there!
so as per my girl kate above i will give you an AMEN too!
Same here, Mandy. I am still a member of "the other doberman forum" but rarely go there anymore since I found Gentle Doberman. Talk about being made to feel like you dont fit in, well, that's how I felt there. Even though no one actually came out and SAID it specifically, I got the feeling that because my dog didn't come from multi-champion parents, grand parents, great grandparents, etc that meant she was beneath their standards. Not everyone there has that opinion, but the ones that do sure make you know it. I love this site because of the diversity of dogs and owners alike. There are the dobes that come from champion stock and have champions in their pedigrees for as far back as you can go, and there are also rescues that the owners dont have a clue where they came from, and a whole lot that fall between the two extremes...but the important thing is----they are all loved EQUALLY by all members of this group...or at least that's how I see it. Opinions are just that---opinions. Just because someone does things one way doesnt make it the only correct way...they do what is right for THEM, whether it be breeding and selling puppies very discerningly or feeding their dog the best dog food they can afford, even if that particular kind of food isnt what someone else would use. I've seen differences of opinion on this board ranging from styles of cropped ears to what type of training you should give your dog, and every one of the posts on this website has merit to it. Every single one. Some I choose to take with a grain of salt, so to speak, but I still read every post from every member and glean what is important to me. I hope this site never strays from the way it was when I found it.
Exactly Paul!
Couldn't have said it better! This place has become invaluable to me and hope it doesn't stray away from the haven I have come to know and love...
I am still a member of "the other doberman forum" but rarely go there anymore since I found Gentle Doberman. Talk about being made to feel like you dont fit in, well, that's how I felt there. Even though no one actually came out and SAID it specifically, I got the feeling that because my dog didn't come from multi-champion parents, grand parents, great grandparents, etc that meant she was beneath their standards.
As you said, that was your feeling but not what anyone said so perhaps you should reconsider your feeling?
The forum to which you refer, imo, is extremely helpful with multiple members who are very knowledgeable and experienced. I know people there who have been "in" Dobermans for 30, 40, 50+ years. Generally, anyone who asks for help gets it. The dog matters and not where it is from. That said, the people there are going to try to help people do better the next time they acquire a dog. If you (generic you) purchased from a byb, they are going to try to persuade you to do better the next time. It doesn't sit well when people continue to support less than stellar breeders. I think that forum usually does a very good job of trying to educate, and will often do so without a sugar coating. There is a very large number of rescuers and rescue owners on that other forum, so I really don't see why you'd think yours is beneath anyone's standards.
In general, I don't find that here. I think this forum is so busy trying to be nice that attempts at education are often taken poorly. I think many here would rather live and let live than to truly help someone do better the next time. I think there are a number of people here who have a very hard time separating their love for their dog from the actual practices that went into producing it, and poor breeding practices are condoned for fear of offending someone.
My first and only experience on "the other" forum put me off - I didnt go there to be bashed but when I said where I got my pup - I had not one single person nicely give me advice on what to do the next time- what i got were 10 + posts bashing my breeder. When I asked if they knew her personally or dealt with her before- they all in fact admitted they did not and it was just hearsay from one particular breeder in our area. Needless to say I just didnt like that initial feeling and left it at that. I do see some of the very helpful things you guys have put links to from the site and have been thinking of going back when I have concerns that arent addressed here.
That being said different strokes for different folks- if people want a more soft and "gentle" answer and to brag about their babies and become friends w/ wonderful people this is the place.. the other forum imo is when you want the real no holds bar kind of answers you may not get here... and then you can go there...
there are plusses and minuses to both I guess...
I think we all just want whats best for our pups and the breed in general
I personnally think we all just need to get along. No one is an idiot... the advice on this site is totally helpful when you want it, and soft and funny when you don't. People's opinions are invaluable, and if you don't want to read something... DON'T!!! Jeez, everybody needs to just chill. RND and Glengate just want whats best for the breed, they don't feel the need to sugarcoat it because we're all adults. Other people feel the need to because they are talking about peoples love. Either way... it can be taken wrong or not... everyone has completely valid points, yet everyone gets their hackles raised!! Just reread if you think it was meant to be malicious, you'll find that it wasn't.
You are very wise for such a young adult!
I wasnt up in arms or upset at all by anything here- Opinions are what make places like this great- I think sometimes and its been mentioned before, that things "on paper" can be taken any way you want it to be taken... You can read words any way you want to. I think that is what happened w/ JG and then it opened up what I think is a great discussion. I like it here because of all the advice and opinions (sugarcoated or not) and i love that I have met some wondeful ppl who adore this breed as well....
First off D and Evie, I consider myself a hobby breeder. I don't breed all the time or even have a litter every year. It is not your business who I choose to sell my dogs to at all. I politely tried to explain it that it was "just my preferences based on MY experience." I never wrote my criteria in what I look for in a puppy buyer for obvious reasons your very defensive post being one of them. Your mind is JUMPING to conclusions on who you think I sell to. I dont need to explain myself to you or anyone else for that matter. Kind of like the old saying when you walk a mile in my shoes... well when you have seen all that I have seen and experienced then you may understand. I can be choosy and I will continue to be choosy as long as I continue to breed, they are my kids I produced them. I brought them into the world and I will choose who they live with VERY carefully! I would not consider it elitism on my part at all, it is called caring deeply and wanting the very best for what I consider my kids. I've turned down very rich owners who could provide the world to the dog but not the love that others may. Just because a person has money does not mean they are worthy to own a dog. I wish I had just ignored your question directed at me and not answered it at all at this point. I for one do not have time to spend going back and forth on a subject like what this has turned out to be. Instead of being ticked that breeders CARE about where their puppies go REJOICE, the pounds will never have a dog of my breeding.
I have NOTHING I repeat NOTHING against RESPONSIBLE hobby breeders who health test their dogs and have an occasional litter as long as they are doing what is right for the breed. What I don't respect is the breeder who sells a puppy to anyone that has the money to buy it and makes a living off of doing so. How this topic got to this I don't know.
So while my rejection rate may seem high I love this breed more that anything and only want what is best for those that I bring in to the world. If you have children you can liken it to wanting what is best for them. I do have 3 girls and oh how I would have love to handpick their husbands and homes that they get to live the rest of their days in LOL!
"Rejection" is kind of subjective, too. For instance, someone could contact me and say they are really interested in buying a fawn Doberman from me. So I say sorry, I don't produce dilutes and that's that. While they were "rejected", it wasn't because of anything they do. I just won't have what they want. My last litter in 2008 was all red so anyone who was steadfastly determined to purchase a black one from me was "rejected", again because I didn't have what they wanted. Again, it really doesn't mean anything about them being possible good owners. Some people have a very specific time frame in mind that doesn't mesh with when the litter is actually going to be ready, so again, they end up being "rejects".
Rejection can be for a lot of reasons that have little to do with the potential owners being good owners. Some of the "rejects" might very well be great owners.
Now there's a good point glengate!
I have been a member of the other Doberman forum for a while now.. I'm not as active as I am here. It's huge and so easy to get lost...Here we are close knit and I love you guys, at times it even feels a little like family.
I love to check the photos that some of the members post 'cross town. There are some very talented photogs on Doberman talk and some incredible looking dogs.. such fun to see them playing and romping and just being dogs..
I'm tired of this thread now.. so I"m going to say good bye..see you on something else.
mwwah!
rnd here's what I wrote directed at you, nothing more: "I'm not trying to insult you in any way -- I visited your site and it appears that you're as dedicated and knowledgeable as any breeder ever was + your dogs are gorgeous. But, having gone through the process and research of finding a puppy over the course of the last year I must say that the elitism of some(I'm not saying you) can get a little tiresome. It'd be nice if we could find a solution -- I can't even think of any process to compare it to -- maybe child adoption..."
I certainly didn't intend to accuse you personally of anything negative, if I did, I sincerely apologize.
This thread did go kinda bonkers with generalizations by quite a few dog lovers(myself included). I must say though that I do feel for jerseygirl -- getting a pup, while fantanstic, is also on of the more stressful things a person can do(if done right). She came here to find support through that stress -- that's not what she received.
Only my opinion, of course.
-d
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Ah, awaiting puppy arrival!! What fun you are in for! Your boy won't be a baby long, so enjoy, take lots of photos and we will be counting down the days with you! Welcome to the forum!