ADDING A 3 YR OLD FEMALE DOBERMAN WITH MY 3 YR OLD MALE DOBERMAN

35 replies [Last post]
Joined: 2011-09-11

Pet Profiles

Hi , i met a doctor in our town dog park who has a red 3 yr old red doberman, she is fixed like my 3 yr old male doberman. he is going through a divorce and now lives in an apt were no dogs are allowed. He was looking for someone who loves dobermans and knows the breed to watch her until oct. i told him i would love to watch her in my home ,he came over tuesday with her ,btw i have a compleatly fenced in front and back yard. to see how the 2 dogs got along. she is very beutiful , and as he said to me she is a very dominate bitch. i also read on this site about dominate agression.. he is also saying if things dont work out were he can keep his dog that we would love for me to have her. they both even got trained by the same trainer {at different times } we both couldnt believe that . lol .she is in advanced traing . i told him that i was very seriously considering getting a red female pup. he also couldnt believe that. we were both happy to meet eachother and thought this was really meant to be. ok leaha has been staying with us since tuesday night. and she is a very sweet beutiful bitch. very protective of the property and its only been a few days and nights here . here is my biggest concern. she is like a doctor jeckyl mr hyde. one minute she is fine and the other minute she shows her agression. Dillinger my 3 yr old male is a happy go lucky doberman. hes got the sweetest temperment u could ask for but is an awsom watch dog too. he never once showed signs of any kind of agression towards myself or my family. most of the time she is very good ,with dillinger they walk great together ,play tug of war together with the big rope i have. .but there have been times were im sitting on the couch and leaha is laying down by my feet and dillinger comes over to see me and leaha goes crazy ...barking growling viciously..snarling and then goes after dillinger ..attacking him.. dillinger most of time runs away.but there have been a few times were i had to break them up. there has been a time were they were both sleeping beside me in bed one on eachside. dillinger woke up first and she did the same thing to him ...started growling and snarling viciously and then went after him. another time me and leaha were in bed sleeping and i went to pet her and she did the same thin to me ...snarled growled and then bit me in my arm hand and chest. does anyone know why she gets like this? like i said about 75% of the time shes a sweetheart. and the other 25% she goes nuts. i really am falling in love with her and hope that things do work out .... any thoughts or ideas will be very much appreciated. thank u mike ...

Joined: 2011-09-11

Pet Profiles

also she is very sweet and very affectionate at times.. licking hands and face .putting her head between my legs for a head and ear scratch. there has also been a time were i fed them together i put leaha food down first and she went to start eating and then i put dillingers food down and he walked past her to eat and she attacted him... i had to break them up.

bet 1941's picture
Offline
Joined: 2012-07-19

Females are more dominate especially dobie.. she may be a dobie that has to be an only dog in the house hold.  I have been searching rescues for a female and a lot of them says only dog..  we have a lot of other dobie owners here with a lot of experience that may be able to help.. Usually i see a dominate female who will get along with a male if the male lets them.. 

I would hate to see anything happen to your sweet boy or make him aggressive..

Hugs

Bet

 

bet 1941's picture
Offline
Joined: 2012-07-19

mistake there was a repeat

Joined: 2011-09-11

Pet Profiles

well dillinger my male is awsom with her. and she for most of the time is also great with him. its just that small occasion were she will really just turn. im hoping the more time she stays here the better she will be. i just came back from the dog park in my town, there was nobody in there so i let them run together and it was like they were the best of friends. do u think she is just a dominate bitch or is she agressive....?????

bet 1941's picture
Offline
Joined: 2012-07-19

Time will tell.. another female and he would probably be great most opposite sex work.  that is why i am looking for a female.. I have a toy poodle so i have to be careful...

Do not ever leave them alone.  I worry about your boy he seems to like a playmate.. but she may have to learn to get along and shate.. I am hoping some of out other members will come on.. It is the week end so people are busy.  but they will be on and give you better advice.

I look on line and there are discriptions for some females like pushy etc  I say so kidding that is the female dog.. My poodles my female was the boss.. they all got along but you can see when it came right down to it the girls ruled.  

Hugs

Bet

Joined: 2011-09-11

Pet Profiles

thanks BET . I never leave them alone at all..i work nights from 10 p to 6 a . and i always crate her .i hate doing that but i dont want to come home to a blood bath. i even crate her when i take a shower.they are never together unsupervised. she is definalty the boss here ... wow shes been here 4 days and shes the boss. what i really dont understand is her going after me.... with her snarling growling and biting .... why?????????

 

bet 1941's picture
Offline
Joined: 2012-07-19

I dont know but that isnt good.. she is used being a mans dog.. I dont know if that is it but I had a mail dobie he wouldnt hurt a fly but he got back at the males in my family by peeing on ones chair and their side of the bed..  he was a ladies dobie.. and naughty..  

I dont like the attaching you.. that is not good.. you may find a dog behavorist and see what they say. but it seems she has you under her paw also she is being the alpha over you and that isnt  good.

hugs

Bet

Lady Kate's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-10-28

Pet Profiles

Hi Mike..

Dunno why.. I smell something fishy here.. Too many coincidences.. too many " Oh.. you must be kidding!!! " 

"ME TOO!"

I'd be very careful..

Has Leah's owner been back to check on her? I'm sorry to sound so paranoid.. ( maybe it's the full  moon, or Mercury in retrograde..)but I have a bad feeling about this..

If this girl is really and truly an aggressive one, she'll need a vet licensed behaviorist, and at the risk of Dillengers welfare and safety, I'd have her "doctor" owner get it handled.. Is he really a doc? Have you checked out his credentials?? I am seriously dubious. It jsut souonds like someone wanting to rehome.

Please let us know

Kate

Kim
Kim's picture
Offline
Joined: 2012-02-05

Maybe it's just me, but if I took a dog in as a favor to someone, and it attacked Gabriel, (Never mind ME!), I'd put the dog in a crate, and call the owner. And tell them to come and get their dog. I would also ask to see a rabies certificate. If they didn't come and get the dog, I'd turn it over to a Dobe rescue.

My girl Lib was dominant, and at no time did she ever inflict a serious bite. She'd jump at the boys, bare her teeth, roar and snap at them, but never was skin broken. I think there's a BIG difference between being dominant and being aggressive, and by your account, this dog is aggressive. She BIT YOU. Totally unacceptable in my book.

My first responsibility is to myself and my dog. (Who is a sweetheart, and I want him to stay that way!)

I wish you the best of luck with this!

talisin's picture
Offline
Joined: 2011-02-25

I felt the same way, the dogs getting upset is one thing but biting you is another, I would get her back to her owner now or into rescue where they have access to behavior/training assessments. I would not keep her in the company of a mellow dog as it will upset him and change his reactions eventually to other dogs. You are not responsible for this dog and you don't have to make your family work into her behavior issues. She obviously is dominant and aggressive, not a good combo.....she is considering you her property and is showing no respect to the dog that had seniority and no respect for you as the superior in charge.

Happydance's picture
Offline
Joined: 2010-11-14

Pet Profiles

I'm sorry, but I'm agreeing with Kim.  She sounds like she needs to be in a one dog only home.  You might try the NILIF (nothing in life is free) technique with her, make her earn EVERY thing she gets, even an ear rub.  Absolutely not allowed on the bed with you, on the couch or in your lap; sit and wait to be released to eat, (google it) etc.  Somewhere she got the idea she's in charge.  I wouldn't want to make my dog fearful of other dogs by taking an aggressive one in the house.  Even tho she's 75 percent as you say, that's not good enough.  Good luck and I hope you and her owner find a good outcome.

bet 1941's picture
Offline
Joined: 2012-07-19

Thank God they came with good advice..

SHE BIT YOU that is what you tell her owner to come and get her.. She was probably spoiled and always got her way.. for the dogs sake she needs to be retrained by experts.  If she goes to rescue they need to be told so she gets the right training for her sake..and for others.. rescue people are great they care for the dogs and the people that get them.. I have been working with some to find the right dobie for me..

Please dont put you and your dog in danger.

stay in touch and we would love to see your boy..

Hugs

Bet

she sounds as if she is taking over. I just caught the part that she was snarling and growling at you? what started that?

I have a very dominant bitch also but she knows Im alpha so she has respect for me and my authority in the house. Until the owner comes back to get her I would definitely start the NILF. She is already claiming her territory quickly.

Keep us posted.

talisin's picture
Offline
Joined: 2011-02-25

Rnd she didn't just snarl here's what the OP said:

.... i went to pet her and she did the same thin to me ...snarled growled and then bit me in my arm hand and chest. does anyone know why she gets like this?

and it doesn't really sound like the owner is coming back for her in October it just sounds like he was looking for someone who would take this female......

Sounds hazardous to the current dog and the new owner.......and sound advice with that information?? This one has me concerned for all involved.....

rgreen4's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-10-26

Pet Profiles

Another thought - have you talked to your trainer (who supposedly also trained her)? It does sound that if your trainer did train her, then he didn't succeed in training the Dr.

You might also try a basket type muzzle for her until you get her to understand her place. It won't change her attitude and she can still growl and bark, just not bite Dillinger.

A dominant bitch is not a problem as long as she understands who the Alpha is and the other dogs are agreeable to the situation. I agree with the others, that she has apparently been spoiled to get what she wants and has never had to share anything. She also has had her world turned upside down a second time coming to your house with another dog. (The first time was when the Dr. moved into the apartment and took her with him).

You have to carefully judge the situation. If she growls at Dillinger, I would let it be. If she snaps at him, I would give her a time out in her crate.

You do realize that you are actually contributing to the problem with letting them on your bed, don't you? The bed is an elevated sleeping place and should be reserved for Alphas. I know that there is a comfort factor, but in their minds it makes them equal to you.

The real concern is that she bit you twice. That is not acceptable.

tess's picture
Offline
Joined: 2012-01-28

Pet Profiles

The experts have spoken and I would take them seriously.  They have decades of experience with Dobermans.  Good luck and keep us posted.  Dont let your heart get in the way of a good decision.  Dilinger will thank you in the long run.

 

Tess

Talisin, I missed that all together.

Basket muzzle, NILF, no on the couch, on your bed or even in your bedroom. I agree with RGreen, see if you can talk to the trainer and get more background on her.

Lori's picture
Offline
Joined: 2010-04-03

Pet Profiles

It's pretty much all been said already - if you really want to keep her muzzle and training now.  Personally I would be giving her back, my dog is more important to me than someone else's and I wouldn't jeaprodize my dogs safetly or my own for someone else's dog just to be nice and help out. 

Does not sound good to me - I'd send her back in 2 seconds flat. No second chances once she went after you. 

Dog aggression is one thing - human aggression is a whole nuther dealie. If the guy won't take her back, I'd have her put down - and that is exactly what I would tell him.

You have a dog with a human bite history now - no reputable rescue would take her and the liability in rehoming her with a bite history is not something you want to risk.  I'm betting she has biten before.

Joined: 2011-09-11

Pet Profiles

Hi thank you for all your input. i took it very serious. the doctor called me up today and told me that if i wanted her that i could have her. he said he could not keep her were he is living and that his girlfriend could not care for her anymore.she already has 3 small dogs ,no fenced in yard .etc. he said he knows she will be very happy here with dillinger and in the home fenced in front and back yards. I decided to take her ,hes dropping her off in a few hours with all her stuff.. once again thank u very much for all your help. wish me luck.... i cant wait for my new girl to come home ...... mike

talisin's picture
Offline
Joined: 2011-02-25

Oh wow, looking forward to this volatile situation?? hope it works to your advantage but a biter is a hard thing to deal with, how will you keep your other dog safe and keep him from turning into an insecure dog?? Again hope it works but I will be holding my breath......

Joined: 2011-09-11

Pet Profiles

so far the first night was fine. i did let her sleep in her crate. took her out of her crate early this morning and walked her and dillinger together. they were fine ,they walk so great together. she hasnt so far shown no signs of aggression . she walks around with dillinger together around the house ,they both go outside together,no problems .they were playing tug of war together with the big rope they have. she is very very protective of the home already . every time she sees a stranger pass by or hears a strange noise she goes barks like crazy.i will definatly feed them seperate. i just got back from the butcher and bought them marrow bones. they are both laying next to eachother and going to town on their bones. lol i really have a good feeling about her. well i spoke to soon, dillinger just got up and tryed to walk past her and she snarled and showd her teeth. i told her very firmly " NO" but now when i went just near her she snarled and growled at me. any suggestions?  

Lady Kate's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-10-28

Pet Profiles

Mike the suggestions were given over and over again. What more do you want???

I'm just scratching my head over this one; and wondering why so many of us even take this Forum seriously...

We offer heartfelt ( experienced) advice than the OP turns around and does just the opposite.

My only hope is that there is a lurker to two who will heed the words porvided for all and prevent the inevitable.

Mike, I am so sorry you've decided to put yourself,Dillinger and the new arrival at risk. I am so sorry that you will be providing not a home, but a jail for this new girl.  Whereas a one dog family could give her happiness and a place to thrive, now she will not be trusted. She will sense that mistrust and act accordingly.

I am very very sad.

bet 1941's picture
Offline
Joined: 2012-07-19

This is the best forum Lady Kate.. i can tell people care..

It is selfish to the dobie's to do this.. she needs a one on one to make her into all she can be..

We are not trying to hurt you but I lived with a biting dog and never again.. Please take the advice of these people they have been there or they know someone that has.. this could ruin your boyl

hugs

Bet

Joined: 2011-09-11

Pet Profiles

the doctor said he also has an E collar that he wants to give to me also. he said once she {leah} knows that it is on her and even without shocking her ,she behaves differntly. also i read that someone said a muzzle would help. what are your opinions on an  E collar? like when she starts snarling or growling to give her a slight shock; would this stop her from snarling and growling eventually?

Happydance's picture
Offline
Joined: 2010-11-14

Pet Profiles

Yikes.   Just shaking my head now.  

Joined: 2011-09-11

Pet Profiles

I also have a dvd titled dealing with dominant and aggressive dogs LEERBURG VIDEO. from Ed Frawley he is one of the top dog trainers in the U S  and he deals with dominant and agressive dogs for 40 yrs. he also recomends E collars for training and muzzles

HarleyBear's picture
Offline
Joined: 2011-08-17

Pet Profiles

Dillinger not to sound rude, but you asked for advice.  

People gave it to you.

You didn't listen.

Why would people continue to help you after you decided to put youself, your other dog, and now this female at risk with full knowledge of the consequences?

Joined: 2011-09-11

Pet Profiles

just because i asked for advice doesnt meen i have to take it. im the one who is here with leah and see her how she acts and i really believe she will turn out fine .every day she is getting better and better. she is more and more relaxed and not as agitated ....i know she will just be fine as time goes by. and im so glad i could give her a great home with me and dillinger.. she really does love it here and her new brother. thank u all very much for your advice. btw dillingers bday is the same as mine 8-2-09 and leahs bday is the same as my wifes 1-30-09 of course not the year. what are the chances of that ???? this was so meant to be .... its incredible!!!!

Kar-jinx's picture
Offline
Joined: 2012-04-15

Pet Profiles

You plan to feed them separate and yet give them bones from the butcher side by side?

I couldn't think of anything more powerful to provoke an attack than fresh from the butcher bones!
It's like throwing a cheque for a million dollars into a crowd of people.  You are asking for trouble.  
 
No one here is suggesting that you can't own more than one dog / Doberman.  But this combination was doomed from day one & you are ignoring the signs.  I hope no children or grandchildren will be involved.  I guess as 2 adults, you can try this, and hopefully no one ( dogs included) gets hurt.  I love my pets, but my human family comes first.  The safety of my fur family comes next. 
 
Curious.... What sign are you looking for before you decide they don't get along and it's not working?

Alright so you kept the bitch. It may be that she has been allowed to get away with things and this is something you may be able to work out, not something I would want to take on willingly but it could be possible you could make it work however not recommended. Did you get ahold of the trainer that worked with her before?

I think some of the things you are doing with her are adding to her acting aggressive, such as allowing a strange dog to share your bed, letting her chew bones right next to your dog. If you are going to keep this bitch than you need a crash course in animal behavior and learn what to do and what not to do.

My male can be aggressive with the other dogs in our home but more importantly he is extremely toy, food and space territorial aggressive so there are differences in aggression. The only reason I mention this is to let you know that there are differences between aggressions. Mine is getting better with age but I know what triggers him and what to do and not do with him and more importantly how to train and correct him. The fact that this bitch has snarled and actually bit you is another thing. 

I think one of the key things with your situation is the NILF methods and getting ahold of the trainer that worked with her. Key things to find out between the previous owners and the trainer would be any previous acts of aggression, what were the circumstances and how were they handled.

I'm not keen on using a e collar for corrections with a dog especially for aggression. Do you realize that if you correct her around your other dog that she can displace that aggression and think that it is coming or caused by your dog or whatever is around her, and may show signs of displaced aggression and turn against the object. It would be key for you to find out in DETAIL what the previous owners have done to her when she exhibited certain signs, especially since it is obvious that they have used the ecollar on her and MAY HAVE CREATED some of  these problems themselves.

talisin's picture
Offline
Joined: 2011-02-25

I have to add my experience here with my rottweiler and bones - we thought he would love to have a great tasting bone, so we got one for him and one for our collie. The collie did great and Ben had NEVER shown any issues with his chew toys or anything UNTIL the yummy bones he never showed any issue with the collie but he did grumble at the chihuahua who walked by him and the cats that walked by him, so I decided he needed to give up that dang bone as I knew that was his trigger to get aggressive/guarding over it, when I went to get it he put his face down over the bone and growled I knew I had to be brave, as this was telling ME not to get near it, so I took a deep breath and sucked up my fear of being bitten and grabbed the bone and removed it I threw it away never to get another one that was so good that he felt he had to defend it. I worked with him for months as this forum knows to get him to stop grumbling about the food bowl and at this stage of the game a year later I can take his bowl and any toys or bones he has with no grumbles.

I would NEVER get fresh meat for the dogs and let them eat them side by side that is  a time bomb ticking quickly. I don't agree with the shock collars Kevin did a great explanation of why not to use them in another thread here please look for it!!! It is very good advice of why not to use these collars. I think this dog is giving you mixed signals that keep you hoping for the best, it's like an abusive marriage the good days keep one from realizing that the bad blow ups are just a sign of the danger to come. It's a false sense of security she keeps giving you with her good behavior here and there. As for a muzzle I don't know what to advise there.......

I would be afraid to sleep with this dog unsupervised so I hope you continue to crate her at night. And your other dog is of great concern to me cause dogs do alot of their learning by watching each other and if your docile dog sees that she gets a certain behavior by dominance or aggressive behavior you might have two dogs that are hard to deal with, or your docile dog may decide to defend you either way someone will get hurt.

I hope you figure this one out before someone does get injured.......

Rnd I couldn't help but chuckle over your first sentence it think it describes her in more ways than one.....one has to keep a sense of humor......

Joined: 2011-09-11

Pet Profiles

Yes u are rite about giving them fresh bones side by side.i could see something happening .my male doberman doesnt have a meen bone streak in his body. hes has never once growled snarled or ever shown his teeth towards me and my wife.with food,bones toys etc. even with strangers passing by we just barks.i myself have never used an e collar befor and i really do not want to use it .i dont even have it yet.he hasnt dropped it off yet.but to tell u the truth just the way she is now sice i got her and it has been since thurs the 9th i would not use the e collar. i really dont feel there is a reason too. she really is adapting very well. btw i am seperated from my wife and there is no kids living with me so its just me and the 2 dobermans in my home. i work nights and keep her crated at night and anytime i am not around to watch them both.even if i take a shower she goes in her crate,with no problem have to say. she really is a very well behaved female. she is definalty is ready for advanced training. and i have a compleatly fenced in property. front and back with also driveway gates. they do go outside together and run around and play.i also take them both for long walks together side by side and they are so great walking together.its really some site to see. also there is a dog park in my town we walk to and as long as its emty with no other dogs i let them run free and play.i would not let her run in the dog park with other dogs .dillinger on the other hand loves the dog park with other dogs.but i will not ever bring her in there with other dogs except dillinger. this is still very new to her being here and i really think she is adapting very well.also she hasnt growled ,snarled at me since that last time. now she comes over to me and puts her head inbetween my legs for a nice ear and head scratch. even licks my face at times. i really do feel i am very lucky to have her and she us. also she was going to home to home while the doctor was going thu his divorce. so maybe she knows that she is here permanatly now and things will only get better for her. btw .i do smoke and have noticed she likes to eat my ciggerette buts from the ashtray. now i dont leave my ashtray so she can get to them .does anyone no why she does that? i never had a dog that did that befor?i did read online that it is dangerous. nictoine poision if she eats a lot ..thank alot for all your help and info... it meens alot ....

bet 1941's picture
Offline
Joined: 2012-07-19

I trained my dobies so I could take anything away from them.. I got lucky with their temperment..

Now I had this cute little girl poodle.. she got hold of a bone she shouldnt have.. and I went to reach for it..  well she about took my arm off. lol  

Bet

You seriously need to probe the old owner and find out exactly how that e-collar was used when he drops it off. It could be some of what you are seeing is directly related to how they used it. This dog probably needs consitency and a fair hand with training. I cant imagine what she must have been through being passed from person to person and e-collar trained

@Talsin, yes a little humor intended. It fit in more than one way.