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mikereinke1's picture
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Joined: 2013-04-26

I have 10 puppies that are 3 weeks old, so still awhile before they are ready to leave but am wanting to start to find homes for them. I have 4 black males, 3 black females, 1 blue female, 2 red. I'm asking 225.00 to help cover cost, They have had tails, dew claws done, are getting fed simply nourish puppy food, I deworm every 2 weeks and they will have first 2 rounds of shots.

Email me at mikereinke@yahoo.com or text 214-859-0595. 

I live im Fort Worth, Texas

talisin's picture
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Joined: 2011-02-25

Oh my I would have figured you have had these pupsters spoken for before the m/f came together .......

Do you have homes now for them all?

mikereinke1's picture
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Joined: 2013-04-26

I actually still have most of them, I've only advertised on this website so far so I've only placed 2. So I have 3 black males, 3 black females, 2 red females, 1 blue female

WNCDobes's picture
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Joined: 2012-04-28

What is their breeding?  Have you done any health testing on the parents?

mikereinke1's picture
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Joined: 2013-04-26

Health test was done on mother, no problems or I wouldn't have taken the risk in breeding her. No hip dysplasia in her or her sister which I have also. Male has papers but didnt have health test done due to knowing the breeder and talking with them. By breeding are you asking for origin? I know the mom is American Doberman. i can find out for sure on stud if that's what your asking.

WNCDobes's picture
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Joined: 2012-04-28

Unless you've had testing done on both parents (hips, Von Willebrants, holter, etc.) just knowing the breeder really isn't enough. 

What I mean by breeding is pedigree.  If the parents are registered, there should be a 5 generation pedigree somewhere.  

mikereinke1's picture
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Joined: 2013-04-26

The parents aren't both registered. The bitch don't have papers, hence the reason I don't have papers for the pups. Would have done a blood test but after research I figured there was no point since you still can't get papers even with bloodwork.

WNCDobes's picture
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Joined: 2012-04-28

So my final question is: why did you breed your bitch? No papers, no titles, no testing; how is this a good thing for anyone?   

mikereinke1's picture
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Joined: 2013-04-26

Umm i believe I stated that she was tested. I have a question do you have kids? Did you and your wife go get tested before having one? Did you make sure that neither side had no history of cancer, obesity, heart problems ect... You must be a big breeder, some of you think that your pooh don't stink like everyone elses...Guess what genetics says that any defect of problem can skip multiple generations before it hits so really except making sure your dog is in good physical health theres nothing that can realistically eradicate disease. So unless you have some breakthrough in medical science you should just keep your pointless comments to yourself cuz your pooh does stink. I bred her because she is a beatiful, healthy, intelligent doberman. The sire which I've known since he was 4 months old is also very strong, smart, great muscle definition and very healthy. So yes I did take some of the standards for breeding into consideration but not everything makes sense. Why have papers unless your showing your dog? If your knowledgable enough about the breed you should be able to examin the dog and identify if its a purebred. If you want to show your dog more power to you on those papers, but people deserve to have a purebred without paying ridiculous prices just because its a champion blood line. However further more how do you get papers, where did they come from???? So I guess its good for those that want a doberman that has been very well taken care of from birth and don't care about making money of them.....Your the kind of person that makes breeding inhuman not me.

Kim
Kim's picture
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Joined: 2012-02-05

Mike, the problem is this breed has several serious health problems that responsible breeders are doing their best to not reproduce.

I bought my purebred Dobes a long time ago from someone like you. They loved their dogs, and thought they looked nice.

My first Dobe died of cardio at 7.

The second had allopecia (he was blue), Wobbler's, and died of cardio at 7.

My third Doberman was a beautiful black, 105 lbs., and at the age of FOUR his heart blew up overnight, and I lost him the next morning.

I cannot tell you the immense grief I suffered for months and months. I took my dog for a walk one morning and he had no signs of heart problems. The next morning he was DEAD.

When you have not done due diligence in researching (sometimes for years) and testing your dogs, you are part of the problem. You will sell pups to people, and chances are, they will lose them far too early.

Lastly, the breeders who truly care about saving this breed don't make money. Many times, they lose money, after all the constant health testing and proving their dogs are an asset the breed. They do it for the love of Dobermans, wanting to see them continue rather than slowly disappear due to poorly bred dogs that aren't healthy enough to live a long life.

 

mikereinke1's picture
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Joined: 2013-04-26

That is why I did it, I did have the mom tested, and the fathers parents history was clear. I fully understand the Doberman breed and all their health problem history. I didn't just jump into it and just have pups. I've read numerous books, and read plenty on the subject and asked many questions, I lashed at him because he basically stated why would you breed her without papers or titles. Papers don't mean anything to someone that loves the breed. I did the research to make sure she would be fit, and I am loosing money but I did it because I love the breed. I didn't skip any steps with the puppies/mother. Don't buy cheap food, in fact they were cooked for their first 2 weeks on solids, same as I did for the first year of my 2 dobies to make sure they were getting proper protein/nutrients/glucose ect... But to attack someone simply because they don't have titles/papers is pathetic. Before he became snooty maybe he could have asked more questions. The first person to get one of them actually bought her last Dobie from a champion bloodline and paid almost 3GS for her, guess what it died at age 8 from cancer. So to point a finger and say I'm part of the problem is also incorrect unless you ask the questions to see if I'm doing everything in my power to be sure that those things don't happen... I'm not out for a paycheck, I won't just give them to anyone, and if it's a new Dobie owner I would be there for them to answer questions and give advice like anyone that cares about the breed would.. Most diseases and heart problems aren't just from genetics, it's also about the environment your in, the food you feed them, the possible vaccines that they may not need.  So I get that a lot of breeders are just trying to protect the breed but there's no point in attacking someone just cuz your used to people not having s clue, you should ask questions, and seem concerned and than if I or anyone else show they are an idiot, than lash out.

WNCDobes's picture
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Joined: 2012-04-28

First, I am not a breeder.  My husband and I are regular people who live with two rescued Dobermans and a rescued Shih Tzu.  We foster dogs for a national Doberman rescue organization.  Both of our Dobermans have obvious defects from poor breeding (incredibly poor confirmation and CDA - they're both blue) and who knows what defects unseen.  

Second, I don't believe I "attacked" you.  I merely asked why you thought it was a good idea to breed your dog.  You never stated specifically what health test was done.  To take a Dobe to a vet for a check up isn't enough.  

Third; papers and titles show a couple of things; one, that a breeder has done at least the basic due diligence on the parents of the littler; two, that the dogs have the confirmation and temperment worthy of reproduction; three, that prospective owners can see the dogs' pedigree and research what problems exist in each one and make an informed choice.  Confimation isn't all about looking pretty, its about whether the dog is structurally able to withstand  what it is the new owner wants to do with him/her.  I wouldn't do anything with my Gibbs other than some basic obedience; his confirmation is so poor I'd be afraid he would break down if I tried agility or any other sport with him.  ALL Dobermans have genetic health issues - any breeder who tries to tell you different is lying.  3G is way more than most responsible breeders get for their pups, but if you can't afford $1800- 2000 for a Doberman pup, then maybe you shouldn't have one.  They're any expensive breed to own and 8-10 years is really all you can expect.  

Fourth; most responsible breeders have a waiting list for their pups before they breed and don't have to advertise for homes.  What will you do if you still have 3, 4, or 5 pups in 6 months?  Will you be willing to take back pups you've sold if people can't keep them?  That's why there are so many rescues out there and why I had 5 foster dogs in six months.

I have been involved with Dobermans since 1987.  I got my first one from a backyard breeder who probably knew less about the breed than you seem to.  I have learned alot over the years, and am simply trying to raise your consciousness.  I thought I was being pretty low key.  You would have been raked over the coals at another forum I belong to.  

I really do wish you luck in finding homes for your puppies and hope you'll consider spaying your girl and encouraging the owner of the male to neuter him (if you aren't his owner).  If you are still reading this, I hope you have a wonderful holiday and a happy New Year (I don't mean that sarcastically).

talisin's picture
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Joined: 2011-02-25

the purpose of breeding is to breed out health problems in order to strengthen the breed unless you have researched at great length the bloodlines of all the generations leading up to your female and the male and found them to be clear of the issues that breeders are trying to prevent then as kim said it is part of the problem. Titles do prove alot and 8 years old to have cancer is not that uncommon in alot of large breeds.

Protecting the breed is uppermost in everyone's mind when they present the questions they have the dogs come first human feelings will always come second. It's all about the dogs. Those of us that work in rescue see every day the end result of puppies that were purchased and then later on in life develop health issues that are either and inconvenience to deal with or too costly for the people so they end up dumping their dog in the shelter to die or if they are lucky they end up in rescue to be placed in a home. Making sure that any puppies born are the healthiest they can be and being able to prove that you have done your homework and footwork is the only way to help ensure that shelters and rescues are not going to be overwhelmed when your puppies begin showing up, that's the issue for some of us......

I work in rottweiler rescue but the facts are the same......knowing the breed you are working with thoroughly and knowing how to prevent perpetuating health issues that may not show up in every generation is key.....some disorders skip generations sometimes two generations so being able to read and understand bloodlines for generations upon generations to ensure no health issues is a good start.....as stated a simple vet exam and some minor bloodwork will determine that days health of the dog but does nothing to create a timeline of health issues known to the dogs involved and their predecessors......

No one is bashing you we all just want to make sure those that pop in with puppies understand the HUGE responsibility to all breeds when considering adding more little lives to the already overwhelmed population of dogs needing homes......

Will you take back any and all of your puppies should anyone feel they cannot keep them for any reason for the life of those puppies???? did you give them that in writing??? that's the only way to ensure those puppies won't die if someone gets bored or realizes they are in over their head or that there are health issues they refuse to deal with????