Searchear cartilage?
I am a new Doberman owner. My puppy just turned 12 weeks old today. I had made an appointment with the Vet to have his ears cropped today. When the Vet examined my puppy he said that his ears would not stand. He stated that his ears were too floppy and did not have enough cartilage near the top of his head. The way he explained it was when the pups ears lay flat from the top of their head and arn't slightly perked up the do not have enough cartilage to make them stand.
I understand that Vets are not trained in ear cropping, but he claimed to have ten years experience. I can't help but wonder if maybe he is just opposed to ear cropping or if the puppy was just being a little timmid when examined.
I elected not to have his ears cropped today. I didn't want to put my pup through the process for nothing.
I don't have any photos uploaded yet but his ears don't look much different than other pups, and both of the parents ears looked very good.
Has anyone else ever heard of this before?
I'm not sure I agree with that, but I will say that at 12 weeks, you are already at the outer edge of when you can crop successfully. Possibly if your puppy's cartilage is not strong at 12 weeks it may be too late to stand. If it had been done at 8 weeks, I would not see that as an issue - but by 12 weeks the ear leather and the ear itself is already much thicker and heavier than at 8 weeks.
Floppy ears are fine - I would rather see that than cropped and flopped. JMHO
Agh! I am covering Boomer's flopped ears! 
Ok, I finally have a photo of Hagen uploaded. What the Vet told me didn't make sense either, but I didn't want to get him cropped if his ears wouldn't stand.
The crop that I was thinking about was a Short/Military crop. I was considering this crop for a couple of reasons. Hagen's best friend in the house is my 20 month old daughter, and I don't want her pulling on his ears, and I want to make sure they stand.
From looking at his picture do you think that his ears would stand with a short crop if I had them done right away?
Thanks for welcoming me to the board. I am excited about this board and love my Doberman puppy. He is the best dog I have had since I was a kid. I already have him doing some basic commands. The only problem I have is he gets a little rough with the little one at times, but sometimes she brings it on herself so its not all the puppies fault.
duplicate - oops!
He looks to have a nice ear set and truthfully I'd leave them natural before doing a short military crop. I know some people would disagree, but I don't think that kind of crop is attractive at all on a Doberman.
Cropping is truly an art and very few vets do a good job of it - then the actual aftercare and posting is a pretty big job - ears can be messed up if not done correctly.
It is of course your choice, I'm just telling you my educated opinion.
I raised two children with a natural earred Doberman - the floppy ears were not a problem :-)
" Agh! I am covering Boomer's flopped ears! "
Yeah, but he is a rescue and so you love him how he came - lots of cropped but flopped Dobermans in rescue. Hard to believe that people get their dog cropped and then never bother to try to post them. Sometimes they flop no matter what, but chances are when both are totally down, no one ever tried to get them to stand.
Just to be safe, don't do it. Zelda's ears were done at 12.5 weeks, but her ears were still pretty premature, so her ears did well in the healing and standing process.
I am going to go to another one of my local vets in the morning and talk to her. The after care doesn't bother me. My concern about the long crop was more of keeping my 20 month old daughter away from his ears and I realize that the long crop is a much longer posting period and more fragile than the short crop.
This might be an ignorant question, but why are there so many Dobermans in rescue?
I vote leave them floppy if there's any doubt at all, why put him through it. We are floppy here, and NOBODY doubts that she's a doberman. The military cut is for pit bulls. Teach your children not to pull on the dogs ears just as you would teach them not to ride them or abuse them in anyway. Just my opinion.
The answer to your question is: These dogs are a highly intelligent breed that very often out think their owners. Thus the owners think that they are unmanagable when all it really is that they need constant training to keep them focused and to know who's in charge. The uncommited owners who don't realise the potential of this breed and buy them on a fluke are the ones that put them at risk.
Agree with Happy Dance on the rescues.
The Boom does not seem to mind his flopped ears either! 
Though I think they would have looked nice if they'd stood.
I agree with Fitz, not a fan of the military crop on dobermans. It's too harsh looking and does not compliment the length of the muzzle or the size of the head. If you are completely set on getting them done make sure you go to a vet that has good experience doing dobermans, and ask for references and pictures. There are lots of bad crops out there...it's a shame to put your pup through the procedure and all the posting to end up with a badly shaped crop or one that doesn't compliment your dog's head. Did your breeder recommend anyone to you for cropping?
Of course floppy ears are great too, I love Dakota's ears :)
Just an update on what I decided to do. I met with my local vet and she examined his ears. She said that he had good cartilage in his ears and they would stand without any problem. I brought him back and had his ears cropped. I went with the pet crop instead of the short crop. I'm very please with the crop to this point. She does a free hand crop instead of using a straight edge, so his ears tend to curve in toward the tips of his ears. The stitching looked good and his ears seemed to perk up a bit more than they did prior to being cropped. I take that as an encouraging sign. Especially since they were cropped so late.
The healing process has gone well so far. I haven't had any problems from my daughter tugging on his ears either. I explained to her that Hagen had an ouch on his ears and then showed his ears to her, and she never bothered them. She bumped into his ears once when the two of them were playing and Hagen let out a whelp. She told him sowwy and gave him a gentle pat on the head.
This is a little off topic but I am looking forward to watching my daughter and Hagen grow together. The fondness that Hagen and my daughter have for each other is very heart warming.
I will try to upload more pictures soon.
Does anyone have any advice going into the posting stages.
I've add some photos to his gallery.
Well he is very handsome! I love the look of the crop where there is a little curve to them.
I just took hagen to the vet and his stitches taken out after ten days. I've had him in this rack that I've made and his left ear will stand on its own. The eight one will stand half way. There is an updated pic in his profile.
If the one ear is standing nicely at this point that is great. If when you leave the ears down for them to breath after posting for about 5 days, if the ears go to a Yoda position (pointed ears pointing sideways) that is ok. You only need to really worry if they droop or get a pocket in them.
A pocket is hard to describle but it is a sort of a half bubble where the ear doesn't make a smooth rounded transition but had sort of a weak spot in the ear. Watch for a crease where there is a sharp break in the ear. Once you let a crease stay for a bit, it is very difficult to get out. If a crease develops, repost NOW.
Some prefer a rack such as you have make, but I prefer the posting method, for with it, there is less hardware on the head and more support for the ear. But don't change a method that works for you as long as it works.
Thanks for the advice. I just read you old school post method. I plan on keeping him in the rack for about another five days. He just has his ears cropped about 10 days ago. I took his ears out of the rack tonight for a bath and they eventually fell to the yoga position. I know that he doesn't have a show crop like most of the dogs on this forum, but I'm just excited that his ears look as though they will stand.
I went with a medium crop considering this is my first Dobe and what the first vet I took him to told me. Then it took me almost a week and a half to get him to see another vet for a second opinion. I wasn't going to have his ears cropped at that point since he was 13 1/2 weeks old but she assured me they would stand.
After I take him out of the rack I am going to start the posting process. His ears are almost fully healed now I just want to make sure they are completely heals to prevent any kind of infection.
I'll be sure to keep you updates on the process and may ask for further guidance throughout the posting process.
You will be so much happier with the final look of Hagen's ears with a medium crop than with a short military crop. Glad you went with that style. Ziva has a medium crop, but my nephew has a black male dobe that he had a much shorter crop done on....it's almost a pitt bull crop, and honestly does not make his dog very attractive. Whatever the length of crop, or left totally uncropped, it doesnt change the personality of the dog one bit....cropping is more for the owner than for the dog. I've had many dobermans over the past few decades, and all of them have had a medium crop.
Your little dude is very handsome in your gallery photos.
Thank you for the compliment on Hagen. I am very satisfied with the style of crop that he has. She did a freehand crop similar to your profile picture. This is my first Dobe and I love the dog, but it has definitely has been a learning experience. I'm glad that I found this web site with so much information to draw from and helpful people.
I would say that when his ears are "airing out" between being taped in the rack or posted, if they are in the Yoda position, then that is good. It's when they sag down beside the head that you are in for a long posting problem. Each pup is different. I never posted Princess' ears. Immediately after the surgery she had the cup, and when the stitches and cup was removed, the vet posted them the first time. After seven days, her ears were standing and never fell.
Most of mine over the past decades had to be posted for anywhere from 4 to 6 weeks or longer. I had more problems with Red's ears than any of my previous dogs. Princess has lazy ears in that when she is asleep or at rest, her ears are down, but when on alert they are up. If you post the ears long enough, they are up all the time. I have never posted mine that long, because I preferred to allow the dogs to move the ears. Once you can read the ears, you can tell what the dog's attitude is.
Updated pics of his posting. He wasnt happy.
This is his first posting. Actually it was my second attempt. The first time I ran into a little trouble because my post were to big to sit in his ear right. After I taped his ears he would shake his head and the post would come out of the bottom of his ears.
The post in the pictures fit in his ears much better and he can't shake them out. They don't seem to bother him best as much either. I used a hard plastic straw from one of the kids cups then wrapped it in half of a paper towel and tape.
It was my first time dealing with cropped ears. My boy has medium to show length (somewhere between). It took almost four months (cropped at 7th or 8th wk). The last two months were series of teasing. It looked like it would stand but it would collapse after 24 hours. He has pockets or creases as one owner described but we like it (unintentional). The slightly relaxed appearance gives him a softer look. The longer ears also allows them to flop more like a bird when he is running. I hope Hagen's ears turn out nicely.
BTW, I started taping his ears when he appeared to be tired. It made the taping process much easier and faster. He also didn't display any resistance in that state.
Just an update on the cropping process. After three weeks his right ear is standing well. His left is still a little droopy. I left them down for a day to air out. I'm hoping one more week will do it. His left ear will take a little more time because it looks as like the vet didn't leave as much of the bell of the ear as the right one.
This is how his crop turned out. His left ear is still a little floppy but I'm done posting. I think this is about as good as its going to get since I had him cropped so late. This pic is a couple weeks old now. He seems to hold the up a little better now than he did then.
He looks great !!! I like them both ways croped and not.
How did the ear rack work out?
The ear rack served its purpose well. I couldn't keep a cup on his head but he couldn't get rid of the rack. If one of the ears came loose I just had to simply tape it back to the rack, but the rack doesn't take the place of the posting process.
Pet Profiles
I have heard something along those lines before, but I am not at all knowledgable about ear cropping, so I don't know if it's true or not. I'm sure others who know what they're talking about will respond.
Basically, I just wanted to say welcome to the forum!