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Dax's mom's picture
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Dax's mother is an American Doberman and his father is a European Doberman.  Dax took after his father's appearance for sure.  Is having a mix like this a good thing or is it better to go full American or full Euro?  Like any benefits in disposition, behavior, etc?  Or any negatives as well?

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  sunna has the same mix mother american dad euro ,and she too looks like dad just on the small side 26 in tall 57 lbs closer to breed standard which is what i wanted .as to any differances don't know on that one. looking forward to hearing the post . sunna is only 9 mos. so im sure she will get a little bigger.dax is a cutie !!

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Sunna is very pretty.  Dax is now 45 lbs at 5 months. Not sure how big he will ultimately get.  His mom is 75 and his dad is 100.  It's exciting watching him grow.  They change so much each month. Dax is getting quite tall.  I have not measured his height yet but everyone comments on how tall he is getting. I can tell by how he can reach the kitchen counter now on his hind legs.  lol.

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 yes they change so much so fast take lots of pictures!

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In my opinion, we should be encouraging crosses between American and Euro dogs to strengthen the genetic make-up of the breed.

People forget that before WWII, the breed was pretty much the same. It's only after that, through the reconstruction and cold war era, that we start to see a divide. Neither of these two historical events are relevant today.

Also, FCI and AKC standards are not so far apart (cropping and docking are not an issue here) that we can have this happen.

I'm all for it and I know there are breeders here in the US that are promoting this. Both sides of the Atlantic can gain much from this fusion. It's up to Dobe fanciers to eradicate this silly divide.

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I think the combination is just beautiful.  I get so many compliments  when people see Dax about what a beautiful dog he is. Of course, I'm biased being his mama but I agree! :)

Any breeding done should be done with specific traits in mind - just throwing different Dobermans together is not going to strengthen the breed when all Dobermans have the same genetic issues. There are a few breeders out there that have carefully and thoughfully blended European and American line Dobermans, but it usually takes a couple of generations of breeding back to our standard for any benefit to be seen as far as making it in conformation in the USA. I have not seen where health has benefited from a outcross of American to European lines. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against it - but most of the time when it is done, it is like a gimmick... and done for the wrong reasons by people who really don't know what they are doing and are just looking to make money on it.

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Agreed. 

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Can we met American female with European dobee. Please explain result of this.

laxman siyol - I think I addressed your question with my post in 2015. It is 2 posts before yours. 

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Hi guys, I have my boy Duke that Is from both bloodlines..father American and mother European so I'm interested in this thread and would like to find out more on the subject if possible...so I decided to bump this thread up instead of starting a new one...anyway I'm not sure if our breader is a reputable breader as I hear a lot on the site and perhaps I didn't do my homework on the subject...I wouldn't call him a backyard breader though by any means. He is really knowledgeable of the bread. He's been around and owning dobermans since 1973. But he and his wife did not show us any pedigree papers on the parents neither did they show us health records...and I didnt know to ask...so again I guess that I'm to blame. My husband found the litter on the internet we contacted them and we made arrangements to go and pick out a puppy. And went back to take him home when he turned 2 months old. So my interest is did the 2 bloodlines diminish Duke's potentials in anyway? I couldn't registered him through AKC because of it and they supplied me with the CKC registration form. So I'm curious now. I wanted to go for a WAE evaluation and I can't I was told since he's not AKC registered. Any information on the matters would be gladly appreciated. Thank you in advance for your opinions and expertise.

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Here's a couple of pictures of Duke, just turned a year old 31 inches at the wither and 95 pounds.

I'm pretty sure you can take him through the WAE IF you get him neutered and get an AKC PAL number - which allows you to compete in AKC shows in anything other than Conformation.  I've run many WAE evaluations for our club and have lots of altered Dobermans come through with an AKC PAL number. They normally were rescues, but it would not matter. 

The only reason you could not register him with AKC, is because the breeder did not have AKC registrations on either one or both of the parents. You can AKC register dogs born in other countries if you have their registration from those countries - people do it all the time.  After putting an American Championship on my Harvard, I registered him in Canada because I thought I would go and put a Canadian Championship on him ..... but I never did go show him in Canada as life got in the way - haha.  However, registering him there was easy. 

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Good morning Fitzmar, thank you for the great information again! So just to make sure that I understand, I can contact AKC and request a PAL NUMBER then I'll be able to have him take the WAE evaluation? He is neutered already. And it didn't stunt his growth in his case anyway.

I'm interested in the evaluation to see if Duke would actually protect me in case of a bad encounter with someone on my walks or even here at home. Which is really important to me...

I've been reading older threads and posts on the forum and saw pictures of 2 of your dogs! Absolutely gorgeous...one I forgot her name just had won a championship and was a red doberman absolutely stuning and your Harvard when he just had turned 12, wow what both amazing creatures they were or are not sure when it was...I feel the need to congratulate you on both!

On the factor that my Duke being from both bloodlines would that have anything to do with his temperament? Lately he's really demanding and he likes to bark right in our faces! Most of the time it's when he wants attention and he doesn't want to take no for an answer like when I stop playing with him. It's like a demand barking...I'm not sure on how to correct him since he's not responding and he's continuing to do so as of today...and I believe that when I correct him he still get attention either way and feels that his behavior gets attention anyway...your great advices are always appreciated, thank you in advance.

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Here's your picture Fitzmar, of your dog I'm talking about:) absolutely magnificent!!! how much do they weigh if you dont mind me asking?

The WAE is a good thing to go through as you will learn stuff about your dog, pass or fail.  They do have to be at least 18 months to go through the WAE and I would recommend waiting till they are at least 2 years old.

I've seen many dogs pass and fail over the years. I really would not take any guesses about what yours would do. Being of stable temperament is important, but it is no guarantee. The test increases in stress as it goes along, and tests more than just their willingness to protect you. 

The pictures of two of my dogs is pretty recent.  Mabel finished her Championship last December, we started on her Grand Championship.... but Covid interupted. There are some shows now, but I'm not comfortable going to them yet.  So the picture is from December with her handler Carissa Shimpeno. Harvard is currently 12 years and 9 months - he will turn 13 December 20th..... although at his age I don't assume anything - haha.  He is doing well, so who knows. He is a Grand Champion and is from my first litter.  Mabel is from another breeder friend of mine.  I have not had a litter in 8 1/2 years. 

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Okay great thank you Fitzmar, I have a long way to go and plenty of time to get his pal number. Very interesting stuff.

Oh wow great story and accomplishment for Mabel! You gotta be proud but I bet that all your dogs always went through and got championships. Your dogs look amazing! Good for Harvard, wishing him longevity.

Just because a dog is well bred does not mean that they can get a championship - not all puppies in a litter will be everything a breeder was aiming for .... and sometimes none of them are.  To the average puppy owner, most puppies from a well bred show litter will look amazing - it can be very small things that make the difference between a pet and a show champion. 

So, most of the puppies from my 3 litters went to pet homes.... some of them could have easily have obtained a championship..... but finding show homes is not easy, and I want all puppies to go to really good homes. Not all show homes are what I would consider a "good home" unfortunately.  Most are good homes, but there are just not enough of them. 

My Jezebel did not show in the breed conformation ring as she was missing 4 teeth as an adult - both parents had all their teeth and had no siblings with missing teeth..... but I got dogs with multiple missing teeth in that litter.  Who knows why.  Teeth are a big thing in our breed since they are supposed to be a personal protection dog.  I didn't breed anything in that litter. 

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I'm interested in the evaluation to see if Duke would actually protect me in case of a bad encounter with someone on my walks or even here at home. Which is really important to me...

 

You can 'evaluate' that yourself in short order if you have a friend that will assist. Get appropriate muzzle for your dog so there is zero chance of 'damage' to your friend and set the dog up.

Have the friend wear a mask (if the dog knows them) and have them simulate whatever scenario you are thinking about.

 

Go on your walk like normal with the dog but have it pre-arranged with your friend / helper to jump out and 'threaten' you at a particular point on the trip so you can see how the dog responds. See what happens when you drop the leash and 'turn the dog loose' on the person that is threatening you.

One of the most memorable times my friend Noah 'helped' me with some girls - He called a few min prior and gave me the heads up before he started making noises at the back door like he was trying to get in. Once the girls noticed it and perked up real good I sent them to 'Go Look'. That damn kid was armed with freakin silly string and as soon as those growly bitches got close enough he came out from behind the crack in the door and blasted them both. :)

Being as how they were both Doberman dogs I am pretty sure you would not believe me if I told you both started running in reverse once the the silly string started coming their way. If I told you one was pissing herself AS she was running in reverse you would think I was nuts. 

 

Noah had way too much fun that day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I will also say that I think that the WAE is a great test to take - pass or fail, but it can't replicate a real life situation. 

A lot of the Dobermans that go through the test are show dogs and they are conditioned to accept a lot of weird stuff without reacting to it.  Many of them will not pass the aggressive stranger - but if they don't freak out and try to run in the opposite direction, I know that they have potential. 

The first time I took my Louise through, she would not even look at the bad guy, but stood next to me yawning (a big stress indicator).  After that, I spent 15 minutes with a personal protection trainer who determined that she just needed to know that she had permission to react.  I took her through the following year, and she literally would have killed that guy if she could have gotten to him. 

My Harvard just stood and watched the bad guy - I never took him for training because he had gone out to protect me in real life.  I showed him as a finished champion and so traveled with him guite a bit.  Dark parking lots at hotels that accept dogs can be in pretty scary neighborhoods...... Harvard was fearless and protective in those situations - luckily, he always scared anyone iffy off - then stood like a perfect gentleman for the judge in the show ring the next day. 

So the WAE is not a perfect test, but it really is a good one to take if you get the chance.  It tests so many things other than just what they will do with an aggressive stranger.  

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I will also say that I think that the WAE is a great test to take - pass or fail, but it can't replicate a real life situation. 

A lot of the Dobermans that go through the test are show dogs and they are conditioned to accept a lot of weird stuff without reacting to it.  Many of them will not pass the aggressive stranger - but if they don't freak out and try to run in the opposite direction, I know that they have potential.

Agree with most everything you said but bolded the one part as I strongly agree with that thought.

If the dog will at least stand its ground - There is good reason for hope that it can be trained to do more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNolo4ldlKw

 

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Hi Fitzmar, wow great information here. Thank you I really enjoy reading your comments. You are really knowledgable and it's really pleasant to get your input and advice. Looking foward to our next conversation.

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Hi Dobermanguy, thank you so much as well for your great knowledge and suggestions! I really appreciate it.
I will try that to create a scenario with a friend to somewhat set Duke up! That's a great idea. That's why I love having joined the forum world to get great inputs from experienced doberman parents out there willing to share...i can't wait to see his reaction.

But that brings me to ask, if he doesn't stand his ground as he is a little shy sometimes with other dominant dogs...what kind of training is available out there to help him out? Is there anything else than shutzhund protection training? And if so what are they called please. Oh and Im also grateful for the WAE link evaluation program.Thank you so much in advance and thank you for continuing to respond to me! I really enjoy your recommendations.

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Oh and Im also grateful for the WAE link evaluation program.

I attached that video so you could see how simple that test really was... I damn near peed myself with what they had to test the unfamiliar walking surface. It looked like a simple tarp laid out on the ground! 

One of our loading docks at work has a metal grate ramp leading up to it. Guessing 30 feet long and wide enough for a semi truck. Holes in the grate big enough for individual toes to pass through but not an entire foot. Have had seen a few Dobermans over the years flip out trying to walk over that the first several times. LOL!

The dog has to 'do it' before they learn that they can 'do it'. :)

But that brings me to ask, if he doesn't stand his ground as he is a little shy sometimes with other dominant dogs...what?

Baby steps... You start small and work your way up. You want to set the dog up for sucess and give lots of praise along the way as he learns and accomplishes smaller tasks that lead to your ultimate goal.

Think about it like stair steps. Some people have dogs that have never been in any sort of place where they have had to go up or down a stairway. If the first stairway you introduce that dog to has skinny little steps that go damn near straight up - He may make it up just fine but coming down them is going to be one hell of a chore and may just freak the dog out to the point that he never wants to do stairs again.

You don't want to begin your learning on the hardest steps there are to traverse... That does not help build 'confidence' nearly as fast as starting slow and working your way up to those sort of stairs.

Another example: The truck I had when I brought my current girls home was WAY jacked up and it was a heck of a jump to get inside for me - Let alone the pups!

One pup was a born jumper and never seemed to have much trouble. Her poor sister was not so great at making that jump and busted her butt many times. Used to feel bad for her sometimes and give her a 'booty boost' to help her on up but most of the time I would let her at least 'try' on her own first before helping her.

Not good to start a dog off right from the start on a jump that big if they are constantly failing at it and I would absolutlely NOT do that if raising a single dog but...

Every time we got in that truck the dog that had trouble with it got to watch her sister pull off the jump with ease before she had her chance. She saw it happen and knew it could be done cause she just watched her sister do it... 

While occasional failing took away from her confidence - Her seeing it done sucessfully by her sister increased her confidence.

 

You are fortunate that your dog is young and that you have lots of time to go slowly and work your way towards teaching it to be able to do anything you want it to be able to do. Will not happen overnight but if you have the patience and put in the effort - You WILL get there.

:) 

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Hi dobermanguy, excellent stories and examples. I'll keep everything in perspective.
Yes I am determined to keep on working with Duke and keep making the necessary effort for his success...I haven't done the scenario yet but I'm contacting my friend to schedule a day to do it! And I'm also waiting on my muzzle delivery since I didn't have one...Haha that sounds like fun lol. I'm hoping that he just naturally stands his ground.
I have another question, when Duke was 8 1/2 months old he had started to mark in the house so my vet had recommended that we neutered him and we did...I didn't know about the growth plate needing to be closed before fixing him and she never mentioned it. Luckily it didn't stunt his growth. My question is could it have taken away his confidence. I wonder because since, he lets dominant dogs run the show at the dog park and never did when he was intact...I was told that fixing a male doesn't take his aggression away. So I'm confused with mix messages. If you have any information on that subject I would greatly appreciated it. Thank you for everything.

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I have another question, when Duke was 8 1/2 months old he had started to mark in the house so my vet had recommended that we neutered him and we did...I didn't know about the growth plate needing to be closed before fixing him and she never mentioned it. Luckily it didn't stunt his growth. My question is could it have taken away his confidence. I wonder because since, he lets dominant dogs run the show at the dog park and never did when he was intact...I was told that fixing a male doesn't take his aggression away. So I'm confused with mix messages. If you have any information on that subject I would greatly appreciated it. Thank you for everything.

 

 

Have zero experience raising male dogs here. Not something I want experience with either... LOL!

Fitzmar does and can likely help you with those questions but I have less than no clue.

 

One reason I never cared to have any male dogs is because they are leg hikers. As a kid growing up I watched my moms male dogs hike their legs and piss on anything and everything they could... They ruined couches, table legs, corners on really nice furniture, on and on and on. 

Females just don't do that crap. If a female just has to have an 'accident' she will cop a squat in the middle of the room in the wide open. You will never catch one 'marking' a table leg or corner of the couch. No way, No how... They also tend to NOT chase male dogs looking for booty just cause they smelled one nearby. They may chase one if they see him near their territory but that is to kick his ass for being 'near' her territory. 

LOL! :)

 

Curious what sort of muzzle you decided to go with... Many different types out there. 

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Good morning Dobermanguy,
Yes male dogs can be a challenge for sure. Luckily since he's been neutered he hasn't marked in the house again. Okay thank you. I'll wait and see if Fitzmar chimes back in on that subject and others...oh yeah I also remember my male dog growing up Boomerang was his name:)

I decided to go with a muzzle from amazon, I'm including a photo. Please tell me if it's an okay one . It's only for that 1 purpose so I didn't want to spend too much money on it.[img]Good morning Dobermanguy,
Yes male dogs can be a challenge for sure. Luckily since he's been neutered he hasn't marked in the house again. Okay thank you. I'll wait and see if Fitzmar chimes back in on that subject and others...oh yeah I also remember my male dog growing up Boomerang was his name:)

I decided to go with a muzzle from amazon, I'm including a photo. Please tell me if it's an okay one . It's only for that 1 purpose so I didn't want to spend too much money on it.

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Looks like it will work great for what you are doing and the price seems reasonable.

I like the wire basket / greyhound type muzzles due to them still allowing the dog to be able to bark and drink while wearing them but what you ordered looks fine.

Neutering early can cause some differences in the growth and maturity of Dobermans - He may actually be so tall and leggy because he was neutered young.  Every breed is different but tall and leggy is pretty common in Dobermans neutered or spayed young. I neutered a puppy bitch at 6 months from my second litter - she was supposed to be a show girl and didn't turn out (mouth issues) - so before I sold her as a pet at 6 months, I spayed her. I regret it and would never neuter/spay that young again.  She is a wonderful girl, but I can really see the difference between how she matured and how her sister matured that was not spayed till she was older. 

Too late to change what is already done - so you just have to move on.  It is really hard to say what his personality/temperament would have been if he had stayed intact longer.  I've not found that aggression changes a whole lot between intact and neutered dogs - but don't have a lot of experience with male dogs that were neutered young. My Harvard is the only male I've kept as a personal dog. He was not neutered till he was going on 8 years of age.  He never lifted his leg in the house .... EVER....not even when he was intact with an in-heat bitch in the house,  but when I noticed him start to lift his leg outdoors at about 6/7 months, I put him back on a leash in the house. If he even started to sniff the furniture, I would tell him "NO" and pull him away from it. It didn't take long till he was leash free in the house again.  At age 12 3/4ths, he is a bit incontinent now so wears a belly wrap, but he would never dream of lifting his leg in the house. 

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At age 12 3/4ths, he is...

 

 

That dog was blessed when he became part of your family. The way you care for and provide for your dogs... I would bet he has many years left with you.

 

 

 

Thanks DobermanGuy!  He is very well taken care of, but some of it is pure luck.  This is the first year in many years that I didn't have a cardiac ultrasound done on him.  I figure at his age it just really does not matter anymore - every day is a gift!  Today he had a bath as he goes to the vet tomorrow for his yearly visit. Will do bloodwork, but am hoping to not ever have to do more vaccines at his age.  He still eats like every meal is his last - haha. If he ever misses a meal, I will be deeply worried.  I still trim him up like a show dog when I do his nails.  I swear he likes it!!

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Good morning Fitzmar, I agree I have to move on.What is done is done. And I too regret having neutered him at such a young age! But at the same time you would think that you could trust your vet since they should have the most experience and knowledge. She never told me that he needed his hormones to be settled and that he could become leggy...she never even mentioned the closure of the growth plate. Im sick and tired of being misled by them! It's like with my girl Princesse, when she started to suffer from arthritis around 11 years old my vet at the time prescribed her a medication that was people medicine. It was only a small dose but never the less it gave her seizures!!! And i believe that it took away precious years of her life. I was so upset when she had the first seizure that I never went to that vet again! I changed for Dr. Browning. And of course I stopped giving her the medication since the side effects were way worse than the actual symptoms.

In the mean time I will let him mature and keep working with him so he gets all of his confidence back. He's still so young.
I'm planning on setting him up with a friend to test his protection skills like Dobermanguy suggested, I thought that was clever but I think I'm going to give him a few more months to grow up before trying it.. I'll wait until he's around 2 years old and if I still feel the need I'll take him to a WAE evaluation.
Having said that, thank you for your input and your experiences.
Oh and sorry for the rant lol:)

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I would definitely wait till he is about 2-3 years old before doing any kind of protection test - at this point, you want him well socialized (not easy to do in a pandemic) and trained.  Confidence will hopefully come with some age, training and socializing. 

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Hi Dobermanguy, yes I saw yesterday the wire basket one that you had posted in an older thread. I think I like it better since it will allow him to be able to bark. That's ok I can always return mine and exchange it for the wire one. It's free returns at Amazon...I also decided to give him a few months to implement the scenario to test his protection skills and let him gain his confidence some...he didn't do well yesterday at the park with another dominant dog:(
But again he growled at a man in pet supermarket that came to the counter at the register next to us just a few days back. So maybe it's with dominant dogs that he has a problem and I should stop putting him in those situations? Hard to tell.
I know you keep telling me that he needs to be exposed to all situations to learn but it breaks my heart to see him being submissive to another dog. Anyway hard decisions here.
Thank you for your inputs.

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 He still eats like every meal is his last - haha. If he ever misses a meal, I will be deeply worried. 

 

When I lost the one girl from the last pair to DCM I started feeding her sister every day like it was her last meal. Had her tested, retested and then had dog heart specialists look over the results and she showed no signs or symptoms (clean bill of health) but still... I went out of my way to really give her the 'hook up' at her meal times. LOTS of her fav treats and additions at every meal. She was on the slim side anyway and I was not concerned about weight gain. Not sure of what the future would hold I just wanted her to be as happy as I could possibly make her. And she was...

Guessing about 6 to 8 months after I lost her sister - Princess suddenly started refusing food. Gave her a slice of pizza one morning and noticed it still there in the bowl an hour later... Went straight to the Vet and she was diagnosed with DCM as well. Hit her hard and fast with zero warning.

I do take comfort in the fact that I ignored her 'good' test results and spoiled her rotten those last several months. 

Saying a prayer for you and Harvard that you may both share many more years together. Lady that runs the local DP club here had one male make it 16... It can happen.

 

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Good morning Fitzmar, yes I definitely agree, I'm waiting until he matures and gains more confidence, to do a protection test...As the days go by he's already improving dramatically. He's showing progress faster at this stage of his life for sure. Just yesterday after 10 days we decided to go back to the park and he did much better he never backed down to any dogs...I dont want him to be aggressive towards other dogs dont get me wrong but just stand his ground period. And develop protection skills.

I echo Dobermanguy for Harvard and many more years to come

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I dont want him to be aggressive towards other dogs dont get me wrong but just stand his ground period. And develop protection skills.

 

Stopped at my bank one time and noticed a lady about to get into her car with a big male looking Doberman in the back seat. (looked too big to be a female)

I told her what a good looking dog she had and then rolled down the back windows so she could see my girls sitting back there.

She seemed impressed until her guy saw them too and decided to get ugly with them. He let out a ferocious bark and then proceeded to grab the top headrest part of the driver seat with his teeth and shake it like it was a rag doll.

That entire seat moved when he did that crap. Very impressive show of uglyness on his part but felt bad for the lady as her car looked somewhat new. :)

 

LOL! :)

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Yes Dobermanguy, Duke responds with ferocious barks and growls when the car is parked and I'm waiting for my husband to run an errand, he doesn't like strangers getting close to the car either. But he doesn't bite at headrests or other parts of the interior...does the same when he sees a dog walking down the street. It's when one on one situations yet that he's lacking his protection skills and standing his own ground when confronted by a more dominant dog...like Fitzmar said I'll give him time

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I lalughed my ass off the other day when I read in an old thread that the person was scared of getting sued if an intruder were to break in and defend his property...that's their instinct.
It's like saying I'm not going to shoot at the intruder because I'm afraid of the backlash...its self defense! Personal protection!!!
Different story altogether if dog is off leash on public property but not in your own home or property.

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Good morning guys, so I don't know if it's a God send but I met one of my neighbors 4 days ago, he has a Belgian shepherd and he does personal protection training with him. So he asked me if I was interested in having him help me with Duke to train him in personal protection. He said that he had all the equipment and that he would be pleased to work with me. Yesterday I saw him again and he did a demonstration with his dog for me. When he said HIT that dog was unbelievable! He bit the sleeve like I never saw before. Very impressive.
So my question is should it be okay for me to trust him to help training Duke in personal protection? That's what I've been talking about all along and wanted to achieve with Duke...should I jump into the opportunity that is presenting it self before me? A hired trainer would be a stranger also right? And I wouldn't know him before hand either...all thoughts on this opportunity would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance. Plus I could have play dates now with his dog in the future and stay away from dog parks and take Duke to field instead for his off leash runs and play...I think it's a winning situation. Let me know what you think of the pros and cons of this offer. Thanks.

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You should jump on that offer and be very thankful...

:)

 

 

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Good morning Dobermanguy, yes thank you that's exactly what I will do!!! I talked with my husband as well and he agreed. I'm super excited. We're taking a trip next week with the RV and I will start upon returning in about 2 weeks:) God is good. I also asked him how much he was looking for and he said nothing, I just want to help you with it. I know how and having these great dogs are definitely worth doing more training like that than just tricks...haha I laughed and said absolutely true!

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I also asked him how much he was looking for and he said nothing, I just want to help you with it. I know how and having these great dogs are definitely worth doing more training like that than just tricks...haha I laughed and said absolutely true!

Agree.

It all comes back to what they were originally bred to do. 

 

You got lucky. Even if your dog is on the watered down side of the spectrum the training will help build confidence for all concerned. (you and the dog) Should also lead to some great advanced obedience training for your dog.

 

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Yes Dobermanguy, I agree, all of what i was concerned with was answered...true I am lucky and I recognize it believe me. I'm truly excited and grateful to have met him last week. It was by pure luck that I extended my morning walk to several more blocks behind my house in the neighborhood by his house:)
Now I cant wait to come back from our vacation lol. I will make videos and try to post them to show you guys his progress. If I can figure out how to post them haha.

Just be careful who you trust with your dog. Dobermans are much different to train in protection than some other breeds like shepherds of any kind. They can be ruined pretty easily by bad handling. I have no experience in that kind of training, but I know Doberman people who have put IPO 3's on Dobermans, and they have told me that it is totally different to train one vs say a Mal. 

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Good morning Fitzmar, thank you for your comments. Yes I will meet with my neighbor Bill and my husband upon returning home from our camping trip to discuss his technique and to make sure that it will suit our needs and not to arm Duke in anyway. I always put Duke's safety foremost.