Blue Dobermans

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dobbie man's picture
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Hi. i'm very new to this site . I was wanting to know if all blue dobermans have skin problems? I have read alot on all the problems, but can't find out if it happens to all blues or just alot of them. I have owned a red and rust and now own own a black and tan. Looking at buying a blue in the future and just needed a little more info. Have found a "Master Breeder" from what i can tell and in his "35 years " of working and breeding dobermans he has only had a couple of blues com out of any of his litters, with no problems that he knows of . And yes he showed me pictures of these dogs and will let me meet the owners and talk to them. So just doing a little more homework so i know what im getting in to . Thank You for Helping !!

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Not all blues have skin issues... but it's best to be prepared for them. You can never have a guarentee that they will not pop up along the line. 

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No promises that you'll be free and clear of skin problems with the blue you may end up with, just like any other colour in the doberman standards they can also have skin issues too.

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Good breeders try to not produce dilutes, so specifically looking for a blue is going to severely limit your options in terms of good breeders.  Many WILL have skin/coat issues, could be as little as some dandruff, could be as bad as losing his/her fur and having big bald spots.  I would do some more research, if you're going to rescue, get a blue if you like.  But breeders that regularly produce blues are usually not good breeders.  If you see mention of "rare" or they are charging more money for the dilutes, that's a huge warning sign that you need to look elsewhere.

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I totally second what KevinK said. Most blue and fawn Dobermans suffer from what is called Color Dilute Alopecia for which there is NO cure, only management options. Some are managed very well on a premium diet while others require additional supplements and even medication. Dog with this condition if left untreated can develop secondary skin infections requiring anti-biotics, sometimes long term, to clear up the infection.

Here is a link to check out about color dilute alopecia in a nut shell

http://www.mckeevervetderm.com/media/a64feeb0eefd8b52ffff8087ffffd502.pdf

dobbie man's picture
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Thank you for all the help. This breeder doesn't advertise blues, like i said he has only had a couple come up in one of his litters. I will talk to him some more about the problems.I will keep you posted.

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I chose a floppy fawn so we could travel incognito within the city without her getting bad/stereotyped vibes from all the encounters with strangers. That part has worked -- not only does no one know what breed she is but I've had more than a few other Doberman owners ask 'what kind of dog is she?'.

 

CDA will always be a concern for us but I chose to take the risk. We do however live in a very moderate climate, it never drops below freezing and rarely will it hit 90. Not sure I'd take the risk if I lived in extreme weather(her coat is is fairly soft but also fairly thin) she just doesn't have the insulation that even normal Dobermans have. I can deal with superficial and/or cosmetic issues but hopefully will not need to.

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One article out there by a Doberman person says that upwards of 93% of blues (and 75% of fawns) will have some form of hair loss.  Don't know how/where he got the numbers. 

dobbie man's picture
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Talked to the breeder today. He said that out of the 35 years he has been breeding working dobies he has had only two shop up. He also gave me the numbers and e-mail of the two owners that he sold the dogs to. Talked to one of them today and she said that she has had no problems with her dog yet. She even said in her opinion she thinks the blue has a thicker coat then her older dobie. Going to visit the dog tomorrow and see for my self. The breeder also reminded me that he doesn't know if there are going to be any blues in the litter i'm waiting for. Both parents are black and tan and the first and last time he breed the dogs is where the two blues came from (over a year ago). I'm also going to call the other owner tomorrow and see how his dobie is doing. I know that they are still young dogs and could still have problems show up latter from what i've read. The nice thing is that the breeder is very helpful and has answerd all of my questions with no hesitation, which makes me very happy.

Will keep you all posted. Thanks again for all the great help. It's nice to see there are still good people out there willing to help you.

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Why is he just breeding the same two dogs again?  This could be a red flag on the breeder. 

Have you spent some time on this resource and applied it to this breeder?

http://www.dpca.org/BreedEd/index.php/articles/43-miscellaneous/362-buying-a-doberman-pinscher

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From my understanding, many if not most blue and fawns will have coat issues.  It might not be full on CDA but taking on a blue would surey increase your risk for health issues.  As far as the breeder is concerned, it is completely possible to know exactly what color puppies you will get in a litter.  By a simple DNA test you will know exactly what kind of puppies tha dam and sire can produce.  For example, each dog will carry the black gene, and some will carry the red gene.  Then there is the black dilute gene (blue) and the red dilute gene (fawn).  Both parents have to carry the gene to produce puppies of that color.  So for example if you have one parent that carries the black gene only and the other parent carries black, red, and both dilute genes, there will only be black puppies.  If both parents carry black and red genes then you will get black and red puppies.  I just had Sully tested (60$) and he carries the black and red no dilution.  So he can only produce black and red puppies.  Even though the breeder has been very helpful in getting you the owner information on the blues, I would be cautious of them.  If someone is producing high quality dobermans then they should know whether or not they are producing dogs of dilution.  This would be a little red flag, if they aren't doing this testing what other testing are they doind (vWD, hips, elbows, thyroid, ect.).

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D and Evie- You really think it is acceptable to "take a risk" on a dogs health just so people wouldn't know she was a doberman?  CDA can become quite serious and can cause long term health effects on a dog, but I guess its ok because you live in a warm climate?  But then I guess those of us that live in colder climates should not even own dobermans because they are very sensitive to the cold, no matter the condition of their coats.  Dealing with the stereotypes is part of owning a dobermans...why didn't you just get weimareiner?

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@Control_Freak- please tell me of the 'serious/long-term health effects' that are associated with CDA.

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I never said anything about the climate the dog should live in. Or did i ever say anything about you shouln't own a dobie (Control_freak), so keep those negative coments to your self Please. I'm trying to do all of my homework before i get this dog to make sure it is right for me. As far as the testing the breeder does he said that the mother carries the blue gene. He is also going to supply all of the test records on both the perants (did ask the question). So like i said before this breeder seems to be more than helpfull with all the questions that i have. I do like everones help and all your OPINIONS negative or not, thats why i joined the site . I'm trying to make an informed decision on a dog that will be part of my family for the rest of its life. Will keep you all informed how this goes. 

 

Again Thank You all for everything!!!!   Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!!! 

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Don't worry about it dobbie man, Control_Freak was directing her comments at me.

 

You know, it takes a strong personality to raise a working breed so I'm not too surprized that people here have strong opinions. It does get annoying when others twist around someone else's post though.

 

I chose to get a fawn because that's what I chose to do. If anyone has a problem with that, feel free to not share your experiences with me on this forum. It's that simple.

 

dobbie man, if you're attracted to blue Dobermans get a blue. There, simple -- problem solved.

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Obviously both parents carry blue because they've produced it in the past.  However, that doesn't mean they will produce it again.  That's a roll of the dice.  Paying for the colour testing would be kind of wasteful at this point unless you absolutely wanted to know if they can also produce red and fawn. 

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CDA not only poses hair loss issues but can also lead to secondary bacterial skin infections that can need long term antibiotics that can be harsh on their system.  In addition to that, the hair loss can become permenant which would therefore leave the dogs sensitive to the cold and very susceptable to severe sunburns and would require the use of sunscreen.  

D and Evie, my point was that I personally think that it is ridiculous to say "I choose a floppy fawn so we could travel incognito without the general stereotypes".  If you wanted a fawn then that is your choice, however, I feel much greater satisfaction having my two black and tan, cropped and docked dobermans being good members of the dog society.  I love seeing them in different situations, being well behaved and people commenting on how wonderful they are.  I try to change peoples perception of dobermans being "mean, vicious, man eating beasts".  But thats just me.

Dobie Man- I honestly gave you a heartfelt response.  While, there is nothing wrong with owning a blue/fawn doberman, they have a large possibility of developing CDA.  Most quality breeders will not produce puppies of dillution.  Being as your breeder has bred these two before and had blue puppies produced raises a red flag for me.  I am not saying this person is a bad breeder, just that I would be leery of them.  Ask a lot of questions, demand proof.  The most important health testing you can get is vWD, hips elbows, and PDK4 (which is fairly new).  Also, how often do they breed the dogs? And what enviroment are the dogs raised in? And what achievements have the parents received?  Remember dobermans are not cheap, and if they are there is probably a reason for it.

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Well, it might indeed be ridiculous for me to make that statement but allow me to explain. Again, we live in the city so there are some challenges there that not every dog owner has to deal with. Mainly, lots of people.

It's certainly well known that Dobermans are especially in-tune with human emotions and because I knew that we would be encountering a wide variety of new people on a day-to-day basis I imagined that it would be beneficial for her to not encounter negative/fearful vibes from the many passerbys that we see everyday.

 

Of course, I have no data nor do I claim to be a dog psychologist but I can tell you that I'm really proud of her behavior amongst new people -- so, that was my thought process there.

 

Your mission to change people's perception is certainly noble and we also try to be good ambassadors for the breed. But, for us at least, we don't often have the time(we're in a rush to get to the dog park, heh). 

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I understand your point a little...BUT I also live in a highly populated area and yes people are fearful of my two.  Athena is a larger female and Sully is a 80 pound 11 month old, so he can be quite intimidating.  I have taught them to respect people's space when w are in public.  If we are on a walk and stop to talk to someone they are to sit or stnad calmy by my side until they get them command go say hello.  For the people that are fearful I explain that they are extremely friendly and if they are open to it allow them to greet, if not we walk on by.  I have been around many ignorant people.  For example we were out walking and stopped to talk to our neighbor who I could tell was a little intimidated, they sat quietly next to me and she asked if they would let her pet them I said of course and gave them the command to say hello.  She was very shocked at how friendly they are.  We stood there for a good 30 min talking and socializing with several kids running around.  One of the kids dad cam over and started asking me questions about them...are the friendly?  Why is his ears taped? How old? ect.  After we left he went to his kid and told him very sternly that under no uncertain circumstances was he to pet our dogs because they would "bite his face off". Come on dude seriously they just played gently with them for 30 minutes.  But their will always be the people that will never change and will always be ignorant, I have just learned to shrug it off and move on to the next people that will love all over them.  As far as having time to work with them or socialize them,  I by far do not always have the time but I always MAKE the time...it is my responsibility.  P.S. I don't do dog parks to many bad owners and bad situations. Plus I would rather take that hour or so and do training with them.