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I am new to this board and I am very concerned. I was looking to buy a doberman puppy as I had a wonderful male years ago and was ready for a new boy. I started to look online as there were very few breeders near me. I saw this one kennel that kept popping up on Oodle, Next Day pets, etc. It was a Ramstock Dobermans, and they said their puppies had Warlock breeding. Well, I then did some more searching. They also sell Shar Peis and Daschunds, and they fly most of their dogs anywhere. I cannot find an actual website or an address for this place, and yet they sell dozens of puppies a month. Isn't this a sign of a puppy mill and what can we do to put them out of business? Has anyone had any dealings with these people?

Sounds like a puppy mill to me - also, there is no such thing as a "Warlock" Doberman - it is a gimmick for selling oversized dogs. Run as fast as you can!! 

 

Where are you located?  Have you looked at the DPCA breeders list?  Be prepared to find a good breeder and be on a waiting list. 

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Dear Fitzmar,

Thanks for writing back to me! I am located in northern Wisconsin and there are few towns, much less dog breeders nearby, but after this eye opener, I am going to be very careful and go visit the place before I bring home a member of the family. I was just stunned at the number of puppies you can just buy online and have sent to you and you have no idea what the place is like that they come from? Have they been socialized? And thank you so much for reinforcing to me that the Warlock terminology used in these ads is just hype. I feel sorry for the puppies and for the poor souls that end up buying one...is there any way to stop this from happening you think? Can you ask that places be inspected or anything? I will certainly look at the DPCA breeders list and I am wiling to travel for the right breeder and AKC lines. I so appreciate your friendly reply,

Lucyloo

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Hoobly, Oodle, Craig's list, Kijiji, EBay classified's are where puppy miller's and back yard breeders tend to advertise.  And they usually run ads for multiple breeds.   If a reputable breeder is out of your price range, please, please, please, consider a rescue.  They don't always have puppies but they are excellent at judging temperament and will help you find a dog just right for your family.  They have great foster homes that will judge if the dog will be okay for a family with children or other pets.  Several of my dogs cam to me as young adults and been a great fit for my family.

there are many advantages to rescuing a young adult.  Like already partially trained, not having to go through they potty training, past puppy chewing phase, crate trained, leash trained, etc.  They will probably already be spayed or neutered.  You can specify colour, cropped, docked, or natural.  And the waiting list will probably be much shorter.

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Kar-jinx, I will certainly consider a rescue. We have had several over the years, and they have been great dogs! I was just thinking about a puppy for the bonding aspects and because we hadn't had a puppy around here for some time :)) I appreciate your candor and your courage in speaking out about these breeders. I wish they could be regulated somehow so that we could put them out of business and not have to worry about all those poor puppies being sold..I am surprised that more don't complain once they get a puppy, but it seems also that many of these back yard breeders put some foolishness in their contracts trying to scare people out of saying anything. Those contracts are a joke....there isn't one thing legal or binding about them.

 

Anyway, I feel a bit better knowing there are others on the watch for people like Ramstock Dobermans, and then they go by some Chinese name for their Shar peis, etc...I am going to try and see if the sherriff in their county would go and check on their place...but I guess there are some states that have very lax laws concerning puppy mills. As long as the dogs are alive and somewhat healthy, it is all legal. Do you know who makes the money on the websites? I would also like to address them.

 

It is great there is a community such as this that is truly here for the dog.

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It really seems that you're beating your head against the wall regarding this one breeder when there are thousands more just like them, and worse. 

I don't know the answer.  I like to think it's education and making it clear why it's wrong to buy from that type of breeder but people go off and buy all half-cocked anyway without taking any time to learn a thing about responsible breeders and even if they do know, they feel sorry for the puppies and think they're saving them when all they're doing is perpetuating the cycle and causing more to be born. 

What is the sense in addressing the websites?  They know what they're doing, and they make money off it so why would they stop? 

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I know...you are right, but just like in some other arenas, horse slaughter, ethical care of livestock, etc. it just seems that education can help change laws and even when people are making money off of something, like the websites, it seems that you may be able to introduce change if they are given some hard facts on what is really going on...I am stuck on this one breeder because it was the one that honestly kept coming up EVERYWHERE I looked..like they have so many puppies, and then when I saw the other breeds too and heard from some folks on another forum that they had some difficulties with the puppies because they are being bred too big ( to fit the Warlock model I suppose) and they were nasty people to deal with once you got the puppy and found it to be less than healthy...

 

I appreciate your even trying to help with an answer. It is one of those things that is an evil in our society right now, the overbreeding of animals, the lack of control over what is bred or advertised, the bottom line being the almighty dollar rather than the compassionate care of the sentient beings that these wonderful animals are....I was a rather optimistic young person and now as I get older and see what people are truly capable of, well, I have become disillusioned. I keep coming back to this breeder because I think that is part of the solution. To name them, tell them it is not okay, and then name the next one....help those potential buyers out there learn who NOT to buy from. As you said, to educate folks...

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Lucy - I commend you for your ideas on animal welfare, I am in the same boat; it seems very daunting and yes some places are willing to accept the money for their websites and yet have no idea what the "product" is that they are taking money for; the place may just be a name on paper so it won't hurt to notify the website owner that you are offended and think this person is breaking the law, who knows, be the squeaky wheel - the animals need voices from people concerned enough to want to go to the extent that you offered. I work in rescue myself and we just go at it - one bad owner, one puppy mill, one shelter at a time it's the best we can do, if I had a magic wand I would wave it and there would be no more puppy mills, factory farming, animal abuse, animal fighting etc. Sometimes it just takes that one voice to motivate others, be that voice.....

Thanks for considering a rescue and ALOT of rescues now have puppies regularly that come into their care, so keep checking with them.....:))

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Hi Talisin,

Thanks for the great words of support. Yes, in some cases apathy is just not an option. I am going to contact the authorities in that area to just go and check on these animals, just in case...I agree so whole heartedly that we need to be the voice for those who do not have one, and even though this is a forum for dog lovers and well meaning folks, it doesn't hurt to try and get them to go do something about this problem too. If I were an ethical or honest breeder, these other breeders would make me so angry too! Not only exploiting the breed just for money, but also damaging the breed in general and hood winking som innocent folks into buying from them instead of from the true, honest and ethical breeder...I will keep carrying this forward, and hope others take up the cause as well...it is the only way to actuate change!

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Good luck and keep us updated on your progress, I can't speak for the breeders here but I would imagine that they wouldn't have a life at all if they devoted their time to protesting and fighting all the Backyard breeders they know of and it does get heartbreaking to see the lack of concern from those in authority to change things; so I would guess that they have tried to the maximum of their emotional stamina and needed to walk away for a while. We do as much as we can emotionally handle without taking away from our immediate animals that need us and our family who needs us. I know I get caught up for long periods of time changing things and protesting then I have to take a break......thanks for taking this one on.......they all need us........

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Dear Talisin,

Thank you for your kind response...I know that time and energy are always an issue when we face things we find disturbing among our midst...and I agree, there have been times in my life when I had to walk away from different causes as well..I am not trying to imply that anyone here isn't doing what they need to do. This board has been much more welcoming and kind than the Dobemantalk board I tried also. Several people on there jumped on me about working for PETA and whatnot!! It was just crazy!

 

Anyway, I will keep you posted. I have been contacted privately by several people now, and we are looking into what the options are concerning the Ramstock Doberman kennel, which also now sells other dogs under Eryn House...they are in Tennesee...and I will keep you posted on my new doberman hunt. I have been looking at a couple on rescue sites. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!

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Do you know George Doyles address? And is Tabitha his wife. If so she has an alias of Eryn House as well.

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Anyone scammed by these people please email me your story at snellcathy1@att.net. I am in the process of prosecuting them for fraud by deception.

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Keep me posted on the results of this I would love to know that a puppy mill was put out of business and that the dogs were rescued so that I can inform the rescue I work for.... thanks.....

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Hi,

Everyone concerned about this kennel should check out the thread that is going on Dobermantalk.com...there are others coming forward and someone even found some earlier charges brought against this family for animal cruelty. They were ordered not to own an animal for 10 years! There are others out there that are taking matters to the authorities and trying to shut down this puppy mill. The more calls the authorities get, the more noise we make on behalf of these poor dogs, the faster these monsters will come to justice. I am so grateful that others have come forward and that there are those out there that will try to save these beautiful creatures from the hands of such low life as these greedy, lying, conniving and soulless human beings....keep us all posted, and I will keep posting as well...

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Could you put up a link to this discussion? 

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http://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding-breeders/73740-ramstock-dobermans-t...

 

Here, this is it and when you pull it up, there are other links to stories of her having been arrested in the past...

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It goes to show how difficult it is to really put these people out of business.  It would seem that the information regarding former charges against them was probably easy enough to find / look up but people buying puppies don't do any research and support people like this financially and keep them in business.  You can see why puppy millers do what they do.  It's easy for them to just keep on doing what they do when buyers don't care who they purchase from and just buy from anyone that pumps out puppies. 

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This is also from the Doberman Talk website....anyone having had issues with her, please contact the animal control...

http://www.dobermantalk.com/images/dobermantalk/misc/table-header.gif); background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(242, 242, 242); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 4px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 4px; font-weight: normal; border-top-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-top-style: solid; border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-bottom-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-left-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-right-width: 0px; border-right-style: initial; border-right-color: initial; background-position: 0% 0%; background-repeat: repeat no-repeat; ">  11-26-2012, 01:01 PM http://www.dobermantalk.com/images/dobermantalk/misc/table-header.gif); background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(242, 242, 242); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-top: 4px; padding-right: 4px; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 4px; font-weight: normal; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-top-style: solid; border-right-style: solid; border-bottom-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-right-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-bottom-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-left-width: 0px; border-left-style: initial; border-left-color: initial; background-position: 0% 0%; background-repeat: repeat no-repeat; ">
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Tabitha and George Doyle AKA Eryn House AKA tabitha Webb shaolin masters, shaolin ken
If anyone has had dealingds or contact with Tabitha Nicole Webb-Tabitha Doyle-Eryn House and her husand George Doyle please email Thomas Petrowski at thomaspetrowski@yahoo.com. He is with animal control. Tell him your story and email him your documents so we can get these crooks off the streets for a long time. We neec everyones help to do this. I just got a shar-pei from them friday and he is real sick.
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sorry for the messy posting, I didn't know how to edit that out :)

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thank you for keeping us informed!!!!

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You are so welcome and thank you for being so kind. Not so much the response from a sister forum site on the web. They think I have some ulterior motive?? I have no idea what that is even about...

 

So, if anyone has received a puppy and/or had problems with a Tabitha Doyle, George Doyle, Eryn House, Ramstock Dobermans, and there is another Chinese name she uses to sell Shar Peis, then please contact Sgt. Evans with the Madison County Sheriff, at 731-423-6000, and or animal control at ThomasPetrowski@yahoo.com...they are working on the case. More people are coming forward, and I have also contacted all the websites she sells on and informed them that she was convicted before of nearly 50 counts of animal cruelty, had her animals confiscated, told not to own any animals for 10 years, and spent time in jail for her monsterous actions against animals...if you ever have time, you should read the court document that is linked a couple of messages up..it will make you shudder....

 

It would be so great to shut her down. Somehow, she keeps coming back to this, and we have to make that impossible to do!

 

I love your dogs Talisin!

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Lucy,

Your dedication to informing about this hanious person is admiralable.  I dont think you have an ulterior motive.  I just think you want to spread the word and put this sub-human out of business permanently. We have to be the voice for the voiceless.  I have a similar situation with an individual in my neck of the woods. I have made complaints or inquiries to the animal control and all I get is "she lives outside of the city limits" and she is a horder, not a puppy mill. Keep fighting the good fight as will I.

 

Tess

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My dogs thank you Lucy!!!! as do I; Goofy the collie has since passed as of last year :(( but still have Benjaman the Rottie and Pepe Le Peu the chihuahua.....

Thanks for pursuing this person from the sounds of it she needs her picture in every shelter/rescue around the globe to prevent her from having access to any animals ever......it takes the one person that is dedicated to get the ball rolling so thanks for that!!!!!

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Lovin' the Warlock dogs!  One Dog, Borong the Warlock and all of a sudden an entire breeding line has developed!  Too funny.  Currently there is a new line the "KING" doberman in California?  Even read a ad  staing that the Warlock dogs were actually Dobermans crossed with Danes and Rotts?  Interesting as how they may have continued with AKC registration?  Just a bit of humor, I am sure! 

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I recently wired $1100 to ms. T N Doyle!

I was promised a chocolate mini shar pei the day before Christmas.  I have been emailing this lady since April of this year. We had emailed eachother more these last 2 months regards to me purchasing my dog. And now searching her name on the internet to see if I could find a background on her....I find such scandalous behavior. So now....I have no dog, my money back or no response back from her. She still has her phone on...it goes straight to voice mail....I think it's her husband. I would to know have anybif you had any luck solving these terrible issues. 

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I think you can call the attorney general and get help from them since this is a consumer issue.....if you paid with credit card you can dispute the charges, if you paid with check not much you can do unless you pursue the information on the back of the check with the bank that cashed the check or deposited it you might be able to go to that bank and make a fuss about their customer, call the police in the city the check was cashed/deposited etc. there are ways, even media attention might get things moving by calling the local news channel in her town